Roundtable Discussion: Retreat and Rest (LIVE From Gun Barrel City)
The guys discuss their experience at a retreat in Gun Barrel City talking about the significance of retreats, and the benefits of stepping away from daily routines. They explore themes of fellowship, personal growth, and the importance of unstructured time for reflection and rejuvenation. This episode also includes much eating of chips and salsa.
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Why do we need both retreat and rest? Recorded live at the 121 Community Church men’s retreat in Gun Barrel City, Texas, Mike Mobley and Chris Howard host their first roundtable with guests Travis and Josh. Their answer: a retreat isn’t quitting, it’s stepping back to regroup and go back into the fight, and rest is the weekly, smaller-scale version God built into life through the Sabbath. Between plenty of chips, salsa and cheese, they talk about creating space for the fire to breathe, why unstructured time matters, hearing God in the quiet, why busyness can be a way to dodge conviction, and how each family actually practices rest. Below: the key takeaways and the full episode transcript.
Retreating Isn’t Quitting
Travis takes the word “retreat” from the military. Some people hear cowardice, running from the fight. But we’re always in a fight, and a retreat is a chance to fall back, regroup, gather your thoughts, build a plan and go back in. Plenty of battles looked like defeat at the retreat and ended in victory. Mike thinks of getting on a plane above the clouds, out of his normal routine. Josh thinks of breaking from the norm and getting out of his comfort zone. Chris keeps it simple: getting away from the everyday.
Give the Fire Room to Breathe
This year’s retreat theme was “Reignite.” Travis points out that a campfire packed too tight with logs and coals smothers. A fire needs space and airflow to build. With work, home and kids, there’s always something to do, so a retreat creates space to just be. Mike sees the same thing everywhere: married or single, we fill our schedules and run 90 miles an hour.
Don’t Leave It at the Retreat
Josh has been to men’s retreats since he was a young teen. Back then, it was a quick “Jesus high,” like a camp high. As his faith grew, he realized you can’t leave it there. Bring something home that you can share with your spouse, be real at the retreat, open up and learn something you can apply to your marriage, your family and your own walk with God. Chris most looks forward to the fellowship, and Travis loves that, for a group of guys who lead all week, it’s a rare chance not to lead anything.
Unstructured Time and the Quiet
Chris bogs down when everything is scheduled, but give him unstructured time with God, a walk, a kayak or a fishing pole (catching optional), and he comes alive. Back home there are demands and people to be responsible for. Out here it’s a blank slate with God. Josh’s reset is simply being outside. A few years ago, sitting in the quiet with no music, he heard God in the stillness for the first time, and it changed how he sees quiet. Even stepping out on the porch for a breath can help.
Why Is It So Hard to Rest?
Mike, a structured, routine guy, admits he’s the most guilty at the table. His first thought is “I don’t have time,” but when he forces himself to get away, it fills him back up. Chris says our culture rewards busyness and getting ahead. Josh goes deeper: when men finally rest or get some solitude, conviction starts surfacing, so some stay busy to avoid facing it. Mike agrees. A full calendar keeps us from hard conversations, honest self-reflection and going deeper with friends. Rest isn’t laziness, though. It isn’t a day on the couch with a block of cheese and video games.
What Sabbath Rest Looks Like for Each of Us
Travis calls the Sabbath the day of rest the Bible calls us to, and it looks different for everyone. As a worship minister, Sundays are spiritually exhausting for him, and he’s honest about rushing bedtime to get “his” time when his kids want him to play with them. Mike’s family has done a device-free stretch from Friday afternoon to Saturday afternoon, with a legal pad for stray ideas, focused on being present with each other and with the Lord. Chris, who grew up with a strict, rule-bound Sabbath, aims for lighter Saturdays. Josh’s family keeps one night a week with nothing scheduled and steps back from serving each summer to rest together. Their conclusion: rest is the smaller-scale, weekly version of retreat. God commands it weekly, and there’s a reason for that.
Scriptures From This Episode
No verse is cited by reference in this episode. The conversation centers on the Sabbath, the weekly day of rest God commands.
Go deeper: Sabbath: Rest for Spiritual and Physical Refreshment · 5 Practical Ways to Rest and Take A Sabbath · Back to Basics: Sabbath · Scripture on Rest · How To Find Rest In Jesus · Book Review: Crazy Busy by Kevin DeYoung
Full Transcript, Not Quite There, Episode 25: Roundtable Discussion: Retreat and Rest (LIVE From Gun Barrel City)
Travis: The one time you get me to say something serious, and you’re going to crunch chips and salsa.
Travis: Here’s a funny story about my ears. I know if you’re listening you can’t see them…
Mike: We can see your ears.
Travis: Y’all can see my ears. The tops are kind of pinched right there.
Chris: Like an elf?
Travis: Yes, I have elf ears. And I was told from the time I was born that I was pulled out with forceps. My dad told me that. And then one day, my dad just looks over at me and goes, “Gotcha.” So for 34 years, I thought I had pointed ears from forceps. Found out I was naturally a freak.
Mike: He had a 34-year joke going on you.
Chris: That’s commitment. That really is.
Mike: Tricky Ricky is what we’ll call him.
Travis: And when your parents tell you that you have a defect in your body, that might be a joke.
Chris: Well, welcome to the men’s retreat. We’re in Gun Barrel City.
Travis: Lots of gnats.
Chris: It’s probably the only negative, right? Otherwise, we’re in the wild. We’re having a great time.
Mike: There’s bears. Bats.
Josh: Dead birds in the water.
Travis: Yeah, magically disappearing dead birds in the water.
Mike: We’ve been told lots of different wildlife is out here.
Josh: It was a ginormous bird, I promise.
Chris: First time to Gun Barrel City for everybody.
Mike: What is Gun Barrel City known for, that you’ve picked up on so far?
Josh: Hitchhikers. We saw a hitchhiker earlier. He was standing in his driveway.
Mike: Are there any fun facts about Gun Barrel City? I haven’t seen any barrels.
Chris: Or guns. I haven’t seen any guns either.
Mike: It’s kind of a letdown.
Travis: I haven’t seen much of a city either. It’s kind of a lake town.
Mike: So we’ve seen some gnats and some lake water.
Travis: We saw Gary the Dancer last night.
Mike: We did see a gentleman named Gary.
Chris: We were at a place called Vernon’s, right?
Mike: Vernon’s Lakeside. Props to Vernon’s Lakeside.
Chris: Thank you, Vernon. Delicious. So, Josh, do you have a fun fact?
Josh: An unusual law about Gun Barrel City was that every citizen must own a gun, at one point.
Chris: Thank you, Josh. That’s pretty neat.
Mike: Any more fun facts?
Travis: The name originated from Gun Barrel Lane, which, just in case you don’t know, connected Mabank and Payne Springs.
Chris: Payne Springs? I didn’t know that.
Mike: This is just coming to you mentally right now?
Travis: I just remembered it from a while back. And according to local historians, the name was first used by J.C. Waits. It’s a reference to the relatively straight nature of the road. Gun Barrel Lane eventually became State Highway 198.
Mike: This is a long explanation.
Chris: J.C., you’re in good company.
Mike: How do we get back on the right track? So, Chris, what brings us to Gun Barrel City this time of year?
Chris: This is the men’s retreat for 121 Community Church, where we all go. And we have some different voices here joining us.
Mike: Why don’t you introduce our guests?
Chris: Well, I’ll let them introduce themselves, because I’d like to hear from them.
Mike: Breaking news. Let’s do guest number one. Sounds like it’s going to be Travis. What’s your name?
Travis: My name is Travis.
Mike: Wonderful. What do you do?
Travis: For a living? Well, I’m on staff at 121. I am the associate worship minister there. And this would be a lot easier if Mike were wearing pants.
Chris: Mike, how many times have we talked about this?
Travis: This podcast would be a lot more comfortable if Mike had on pants.
Chris: You’ve got orange shorts on. This is the unfortunate part about not doing video.
Mike: So, to the listeners out there, I am wearing shorts.
Josh: They are orange.
Mike: This is what happens on a men’s retreat. Sometimes various lies get spread.
Travis: I didn’t say you weren’t wearing shorts. I just said it would be easier if you were wearing pants.
Mike: That’s very good. That’s Travis, everyone. That’s all we need to say for that guest.
Travis: But I will say the midriff definitely accentuates the shorts. So we’re proud of you for that.
Chris: I warned you about that one.
Travis: Yeah, something about a guy in a midriff and bright orange shorts in a kayak.
Mike: We’re going to pivot to our next guest. He goes by the name of…
Josh: I’m Josh.
Mike: Josh, everyone. In the house. That’s my last crickets for you. I’m sorry.
Josh: No, it’s okay. Keep them coming. I like crickets. They don’t scare me.
Mike: Big lover of crickets.
Josh: Big lover of crickets. This is probably my millionth men’s retreat.
Mike: I thought you were going to say millionth podcast. I was like, wow, way to go.
Josh: My first men’s retreat was when I was like 12 or 13. Many, many moons ago.
Mike: Josh is like 55.
Josh: We were the band of brothers back then.
Mike: So, Chris, what is a men’s retreat? Does everyone come here to Gun Barrel, Texas, every year? How would you define a men’s retreat?
Chris: No, but it is a planned time for the men of 121, and I’m sure there are men’s retreats all across the nation, maybe even the world. For us at 121, it’s a planned, focused time to… Oh, I thought you were going to press crickets there.
Mike: Don’t be nervous. Keep going. Retreats anywhere. What does a retreat mean?
Chris: Get away. Get away from the norm. Take a weekend.
Mike: You don’t have to just take a weekend. You can take a whole week. You can take a year.
Chris: Do whatever you want. But for us, it’s to get out of our normal surroundings, get together with several guys and get into nature, if possible.
Mike: Does it always involve nature? Let’s say for you, Chris. When you hear “retreat,” what does that mean?
Chris: It means I’m not going to be at home. I’m getting out of my regular surroundings.
Mike: Does it always mean nature for you?
Chris: Not necessarily. We’ve had city retreats where we’ve just gone up to the church and spent some time there, and those were good as well. But this time, we decided to come out to Gun Barrel City for the men’s retreat.
Mike: Sounds manly. So you say “get away from your normal, everyday surroundings.” That’s your definition of a retreat?
Chris: I’d like to think that’s how we started.
Mike: That’s fine, man. I’m just asking you a question. You look all nervous. For me, when I think “retreat,” I think retreating away. Kind of like when you get on a plane. For me, if I get on a plane above the clouds, it just gets me out of my regular surroundings. It doesn’t matter if it’s nature or not. It’s just not my normal routine or atmosphere. What do y’all think of when you hear “retreat”?
Travis: I think military-wise, you think of retreat like you’re in a battle.
Mike: You’re a big military guy.
Chris: This is going to get spiritual.
Mike: No, it’s going to get military.
Travis: No, I just think about the term “retreat.” A lot of people, if you’re thinking military, think of it as almost cowardly. Like you’re running away from the fight. You’re losing, right? But the way I look at it, man, we’re always in a fight. And so it’s nice to just get away, fall back and get your plan back together. Of course. The one time you get me to say something serious, and you’re going to crunch chips and salsa.
Chris: That was your first button use ever.
Travis: I’m so proud.
Mike: I’m like a proud pop over here.
Chris: You’re the king.
Travis: Let’s move on. That’s what I think about it. You’re in the middle of something, and you get away to regroup, get your thoughts back together, build a plan and then go back. There’s a difference between retreating and quitting. There have been a lot of battles where an army retreated and it looked like defeat, but they regrouped and came out on top. So that’s how I think about it. Just pause. Gather your thoughts, gather your plan, then go back.
Mike: That’s a good word. One is retreating, the other could be quitting, like you’re saying. That’s a good analogy.
Chris: Because we’re going back, right? We’re going back into the battle.
Mike: We’re planning on going back. Are you planning on going back?
Chris: I am. As much fun as I’m having here.
Travis: It’s been 24 hours, and Chris is like, “I’m done.”
Chris: I’m just getting warmed up.
Travis: I need a retreat from these guys at the retreat.
Mike: So, Josh, what about you? When you think “retreat”?
Josh: I think of just breaking away from the norm. Getting out of your comfort zone, or just something different. Stepping away and breaking away. It’s a time to relax, really, and not stress out about life. And just talk, you know? That’s what I think of.
Chris: I like it.
Travis: What an invite to a podcast. “Do you want to come on a podcast? I’m going to ask you a question, and every time you answer, I’m going to crunch chips.”
Mike: Well, actually, that’s Chris eating a lot of chips right now, so the world will never know.
Travis: Let’s talk about the things our wives hate.
Mike: That’s fair. My wife hates the chewing, but she claimed there was a condition. There was a word for it. Do y’all know that word? Is it all chewing? Is that the main thing?
Travis: Smacking. When I was growing up, my mom was like, “Quit smacking your food.” And I never understood. I just didn’t realize I was doing it.
Mike: So are we saying, for all of our wives, it’s smacking?
Chris: I think smacking. They would probably agree.
Josh: Talking with your mouth full.
Mike: Anything food- and mouth-related.
Travis: I realized my wife just doesn’t like any sound coming out of my body. Period. No matter where. Even just talking, the sound of breathing. She’s just like, “Stop it.”
Chris: “You’re breathing too much.”
Josh: “Too loud. It’s the wrong time.”
Chris: So really, this men’s retreat is a gift for them as well.
Mike: Yeah, we’re getting all the sounds out of our bodies this weekend. I’m going to bring us back from bodily sounds to retreating. I think whether it’s men or women, there’s some benefit, more than once a year if we’re honest, to stepping out of your everyday. Maybe it helps you gain perspective. What would y’all say is the benefit? We’re going to go back to our everyday routines tomorrow. What’s something you gain? And especially, Josh, you say you’ve been doing this since you were a wee little baby. You come back each time. Is it a different perspective every time? Refreshed? What do you come back to your everyday life with?
Josh: When I was younger and going to men’s retreat, I always saw it as just a quick Jesus high, like a camp high. As a teenager, you go and you get real high on Jesus.
Chris: We’re not doing drugs here, by the way. Just to clarify.
Mike: There are no drugs happening here.
Josh: But after I grew up a little bit, and my faith got stronger, I realized it’s something you can’t just leave there. You’ve got to take something away that you can actually share with your spouse and be open to talk about. I’m pretty sure all of our wives would agree that they want to hear from you and see some changes. Hopefully you’re able to be real at the retreat, open up and learn something you can apply to your marriage, your family and your own personal walk.
Mike: That’s good. Travis, T-Money, as they call you on stage sometimes. What would you add?
Travis: I agree. To me, every year and every retreat is different, because we’re in a different season every year. This year for me, it’s just rest. Just get away for a couple of days. It’s like I go back to the military thing: a time to get away from all the distractions and regroup. It doesn’t have to be some kind of crazy camp high. It’s like, man, I just need a couple of days. Just space. I was talking to Jordan, our men’s minister, and the theme he came up with this year was “Reignite.” We’re talking about a fire, right? Reigniting the fire. And one thing I told him is, when you think about a campfire, if you’ve got all the logs and coals packed together, it’s smothered. You’ve got to have space for the airflow. You’ve got to create space for that fire to build. To me, that’s what this is: creating space. Because we’re all married with kids at home. Whether it’s work or home, there’s always stuff to do. So it’s nice to get out and say, “I don’t have to do anything. I just get to be.” Except for asking Mike to put on clothes.
Mike: Sure. I’m wearing shorts again, for the listener, just to be clear.
Travis: We still have to father each other around.
Mike: You know what’s funny? The retreating, almost getting replenished, getting supplies to go back to the battlefield. And your comment about making space. We’re probably too overwhelmed, married or single. We’re all filling our schedules. We’re clearly all going 90 miles an hour. Would you agree? Would you add anything?
Chris: I look forward to the fellowship, because I spend a lot of my time working from home and don’t get that face-to-face as much. So coming out, spending time with the fellows, having fun, having some jokes and laughs, and taking some time to be serious too and have some good conversations. That’s what I enjoy, especially this year.
Mike: We’ve also learned on this trip, and the listener wouldn’t be surprised after previous episodes, what Chris’s favorite ringtone is.
Chris: “This Girl Is on Fire.”
Mike: It’s really what you learn about a man at a retreat.
Chris: Yes, that’s my favorite ringtone.
Mike: Some would say that is your ringtone.
Chris: Yeah, it is.
Travis: And it’s fitting, since the theme of the retreat is “Reignite.”
Mike: So I want you to be set on fire, my friend.
Travis: When you get back home, that girl is going to be on fire.
Josh: Or you eat hot chips and just start singing it.
Travis: You know what’s really cool about these trips, though? And it doesn’t even have to be a trip, because you can go five minutes away. Gun Barrel City is an hour and a half away. But at least for this group, most of us are in leadership positions in our jobs, right? So it’s nice to come away and not feel the pressure of leading something. Like I said, you just get to go and be. And we don’t get that opportunity a whole lot. That’s what I love about it. You get to unplug. It’s the fellowship. It’s conversations you’re not going to have just passing in the hallways. It’s intentional. I think we lack intentionality in our relationships and our day-to-day tasks.
Mike: We’re almost reacting a lot to the things coming at us.
Travis: Well, because there’s stuff coming at us nonstop.
Mike: Yeah, for real. I appreciate a retreat these days. The first couple I went on, I was pretty nervous. I was thinking, I don’t want to go out of my comfort zone and sing “Kumbaya” by a campfire. But I had the wrong idea, obviously. It’s a little different for all of us. Chris, what helps you gain that perspective? Not just at a retreat, but even at your house. What activities help you take a breath and return to being proactive instead of reactive to everything?
Chris: “This girl is on fire…”
Mike: Travis is out. He’s leaving the table. Thanks, Travis.
Chris: I like unstructured time. I think unstructured time is a really valuable resource these days. If things are overly formalized, like you have to be here at this particular time and we’re going to do this or that, I tend to bog down. But if you give me some unstructured time and say, “Make this your own. Spend time with God. Go wherever you want, walk around the place a bit, get to know it, kayak out on the lake…”
Mike: That’s a good one.
Chris: Fish, whether you catch something or not, which we haven’t.
Mike: Just unstructured time. Freedom to do whatever you want. You’re not on a schedule or an agenda.
Chris: Watch a little college football. Try a new chip, which is going to become your favorite right away.
Josh: Best chips ever.
Chris: The Doritos. What are they, the Thai chili?
Josh: Chili salsa Doritos? Something like that.
Mike: Aren’t they Sweet and Spicy Doritos?
Josh: Sweet, spicy hot chili salsa.
Chris: Doritos, I hope you sponsor us at some point.
Mike: It’s the Sweet and Spicy Doritos.
Josh: You know what? It’s the purple bag. If you go into a gas station, give me the purple bag of Doritos.
Mike: So unstructured, there’s no pressure. You literally have the freedom to do whatever.
Chris: Because we have structured time back home, right? We have demands. We have things we’re responsible for, people we’re responsible for. Out here, it’s just a blank slate with God. At least that’s what I like.
Mike: What about y’all? Whether it’s at a retreat or not, what helps you gain perspective and get more proactive versus reactive?
Josh: I’ve always said just sitting outside, for some reason. Just being outdoors. It opens the walls, opens the horizon. It’s just bigger, and I can think more because it’s a wide-open space. I really love to just be outside and sit, sometimes without music on. Don’t think about anything. Just listen to the quiet. It wasn’t until a few years ago that I really had an awakening: I could hear God in the stillness of the quiet. I had never done that in my entire life until I had a moment where I did. And it really changed my perspective on quietness.
Chris: Made you want more of that?
Josh: Yeah. It was just nice. So, just being outside, hearing nature. Birds, cars, whatever. Planes.
Mike: Do cars count as nature?
Josh: Hey, look, I live on the corner of a busy street.
Mike: You just don’t normally hear people say “cars.”
Travis: Nothing brings me peace like the sound of traffic.
Josh: Rush hour is my favorite. Hashtag city boy. What do you expect? But getting outside your four walls. Even just stepping out onto the porch. Just breathing. Regaining myself before I go back inside. And smelling the freshness of the car fumes driving by.
Travis: Yeah, that’s what I love too. To me, my favorite planned thing at a retreat is unplanned time. Because so many times you go to a “retreat,” air quotes, and it’s really a conference. I’ve never been on a cruise, and I don’t want to go on a cruise. I get it for some people. But it seems so scheduled, right?
Mike: I haven’t been on a cruise.
Chris: I’ve been on a cruise.
Travis: You get to choose your schedule, but if you want to eat at the restaurant…
Josh: “You have six or eight. Here are your dinner times.”
Travis: It’s like, “We’re going to build your vacation for you.” And again, I’m not knocking cruises. But we’ve been on a lot of trips like that, where it feels like you have to be here at this time, and this is what we’re going to talk about, whether you’re in that season or not. Luckily, if God has you there, he’s got something there for you, no matter what. But the way we’ve done this the last couple of years has been awesome. It’s like, “What do you want to do?” That’s what we talk about with the Sabbath. Everything we’re talking about right now, we’re just describing the Sabbath. And we are horrible about taking advantage of it.
Mike: When you say “Sabbath,” for listeners, what do you mean?
Travis: When the Bible calls us to take our Sabbath, that is our day of rest. And it can look different for everyone. It’s not “this is how it has to look for you.” How do you rest, get out of your normal routine and recharge to go back into the week? Rest can look different. Our jobs are so scheduled: we have to be here at this time, and from this time to this time we have a meeting. Retreats and conferences can do the same thing: you have to be here, and this is what we’re talking about. One solution is not the solution for all. So, to answer your question, I would say the Sabbath is different for everyone. Some families love sports and are so involved, and that’s their way of worshiping together as a family. That’s not me, but for other people it is. That’s what I like about the way we’ve done these retreats the last couple of years: they have felt retreat-ful. We’re not all going camping, because not every guy loves that. Going out to the woods and the river is my idea of a retreat, but it’s not going to jive with everyone. Some guys this weekend are just playing golf. Some guys are hunting. And there are guys like us who are like, “Man, we’re at this lake house. We just want to relax, hang out and talk.” So it’s different for everyone. What I love is they’re saying, “Go do what you need to do to get your rest. We’ve given you a guide, but you don’t even have to go through the guide.” Whatever God calls you to do. That’s how I would view a retreat. What makes sense for you doesn’t make sense for every other guy or lady out there.
Chris: You bring up a good point, because even when we plan vacations, and you mentioned the cruise, vacations have an itinerary. Those don’t always feel restful. So this is a completely different, really unique experience. Mike, what have you gotten?
Travis: Besides chips in your mouth every time you ask somebody something.
Mike: Chris is the one eating the chips. What have I got on the topic, is what you’re saying?
Chris: What have you been taking away so far?
Mike: Unstructured time is helpful for me. Thank you, Chris, for your chompings. At this point, we know our wives are officially out of this episode because of the amount of smacking. If you’re still listening, we really appreciate you hanging in there.
Travis: They were out the second they heard our voices. And again, they’re on retreat, sort of. They’re with our kids at home.
Mike: You know, I need to get out of my routine. I’m a very routine person: structured, disciplined. So to break it all up and go, “Okay, stop.” And, Travis, you’re making me think about the Sabbath. It’s hard for me to do that every week. But I know I’m not alone in this, because I talk to everyone, and we all seem to be, as a culture, going 99 miles an hour. We just don’t stop to rest really well. And then we complain that we’re running ragged and have too many things going on. Well, duh. Our RPMs are high. And I’m the most guilty here at the table. Sometimes the first thing I hear in my head is, “I don’t have time to get away,” or “I don’t want to.” But if I force myself to do it, what do you know? I’m in a place like a lake house, and it’s really beneficial to me. It fills me back up, and I come back with a fresh perspective. Not every time, but sometimes. So it made me think: why do we think it’s so hard, for anyone here at the table or listening, to just rest? To take a break? I’m not talking about being lazy. Obviously, some of us can rest too much. I’m not talking about lying on the couch eating a block of cheese and playing video games all day. That’s not what we’re supposed to be doing.
Travis: Why did you look right at me when you said that?
Mike: You are eating some cheese right now, so it was fitting. But in general, why do we think it’s so hard to rest? I feel like it’s an epidemic.
Chris: I think our culture rewards busyness. There’s a strong push to get ahead, and getting ahead means putting time toward things. Usually those things are activities, and usually they revolve around money, sports, things like that.
Josh: And I think sometimes, as a believer, when men do rest or have that solitude time, it’s easy for conviction to start sinking in and coming to the front of your mind. And some people…
Mike: You don’t want to face it.
Josh: They don’t want to face it. So they’re like, “I’m not going to rest. I’m going to keep busy. I’m going to focus on something else. I’m not even going to give that space an opening.”
Chris: That’s good, because there’s the external issue, and then there’s the internal issue Josh just brought up: we may not want to rest.
Mike: That’s a good word. We keep ourselves distracted and the calendar full, so we have no time for the hard conversation we need, or inner self-reflection, or going deeper with a friend. We don’t want to do any of that. So we keep ourselves too busy on the surface.
Travis: We’ve talked about what we view retreats as, but we keep saying “rest.” What does rest mean to you? Because it can look different for everyone. For me, just as an example, on Sundays we get to the church really early.
Chris: Humble brag.
Travis: No, I’m actually about to be vulnerable. We get to the church early. Services end, and unless there are meetings or other things going on that afternoon, most of the time we’ll be home for the afternoon. I want to go home and crash on the couch for a few minutes. But that’s a day and a time when I can actually spend time with my kids. And I’m really selfish in my rest. Sometimes at night, we start bedtime around eight o’clock, and I’m like, “It’s time to go.” It’s 6:59, and I’m like, “Get your rear end in the bathroom, get your teeth brushed. It’s time to read the story, because now we’re on my time.” I’ve used those words before. It’s a total jerk thing to say. But I’m like, “You’re on my time, because I want to rest.” And my rest is, like you said, eating a block of cheese and playing video games. Honestly, it’s not far off.
Chris: It’s a bowl of cheese.
Travis: We’re not sponsored, but if Julio’s queso wants to throw in, we love you. And maybe my rest should just be spending that time with my kids. That afternoon, we only let our kids play video games for a little bit on Saturdays and Sundays. That’s us. Do what you want to do. But usually, by the time we get home from church, I’m like, “I’m tired. I worked all morning.” For those who don’t know, when you’re in ministry, Sundays are hard days. They’re exhausting. It’s exhausting being around people that much, but the spiritual part is exhausting too. There’s something about leading services people don’t know about. There’s the physical act of doing it, but there’s a spiritual side. It’s a battle you’re fighting all morning. I don’t know how to explain it. Anybody on a church staff will come home on a Sunday and be like, “I am exhausted.” There’s a battle we’re fighting that we don’t even realize we’re fighting in the moment. So I want to go home and crash on the couch for an hour and a half. So I’m like, “All right, y’all go play your video games.” But some weeks they’re like, “We’d rather not even play games. We want you to play with us.” So where do you draw that line? Because that’s not my Sabbath day, per se. So do you guys have a dedicated Sabbath day? I know that went all over the place. Sorry. Just think about rest in general. Rest looks different.
Mike: That’s a really good question. And it’s a good word on being physically, emotionally and spiritually drained. That’s fair. Whatever the role, obviously, a pastor’s Sunday is going to be a busier day, or a Wednesday. For other people in the workforce, Monday through Friday could be busier. If you’re a coach on a sports team, Saturday might be one of your busier days. That all makes sense. I’ll go first on this. We’ve had to discern and sometimes adjust, I’ll say year to year. We’ve had some years where from Friday afternoon to Saturday afternoon, roughly 24 hours, we’d put the devices away and just spend time together. Whatever we did, we didn’t really care, as long as we were together. I had a hard time with that at first, because I’d have ideas in my head, or something I’d need to write down for later. So I’d keep a legal pad out on the kitchen counter, physically handwrite in it, put it away, and still never use my devices. We did that for a few years, and it worked. We’re not doing that currently. I don’t get so hung up on 24 hours exactly. Some people have different takes on that. I’ve been challenged on it, where people said, “No, it needs to be a full day.” Okay. I know it needs to be longer than an hour. I get that. There’s something about the time. But I try not to nickel-and-dime it so specifically. For us, most of the time it’s some variant of: devices are away, so we’re not as connected to the outside world, and it’s physical presence with each other and with the Lord. Those are the boundaries, for the most part. I don’t know what y’all do, though.
Chris: Traditionally it’s been Saturday, without really formalizing it, because, as I’ve shared about my history, we were actually forced to observe a Sabbath when I was younger.
Mike: That’s right. Remind us what that was like.
Chris: No TV, unless I was recording Cheers. From Friday evening to Saturday evening. You were basically shutting down life. And it wasn’t that we were spending time with each other. It was just what it was supposed to be. It was kind of a cult-like thing. So anyway, we don’t…
Mike: Just a little cult.
Chris: Now, traditionally, it’s been Saturdays, where we’ve tried to have less to do. My wife is also in ministry, so Sunday is often very difficult for her too, and it’s hard to nail down Sunday as a Sabbath. So we just do our best on Saturday to not have as much planned, or to have some unplanned time we can take and do something with. Not always. There are still things on our schedule, activities for our daughter, things like that.
Mike: That’s good. Josh, what about you?
Josh: It looks different every season. You just readjust it and make it a priority. For us, it looks different this year than last year. We try to have one night a week where there’s just nothing, and then half the day on Saturday, or Sunday after church, just rest and not plan a bunch of things. That’s probably our main thing. In the summers, usually my wife and I will step away from serving at the church in June and July, to be together as a family. We’ve done that since we got married, and we’ve stuck to it. We said, “We’re going to take this season off and go away each weekend, be with the family and just rest on the boat and on the water and be in nature.” It’s something we’re going to keep doing for the rest of our lives, as long as we can. We take that season to rest and be ready for the new school year when it comes.
Mike: So those are all different tactics for resting, which is great. At the top of the show, we talked about retreating as kind of that military backing up, replenishing and coming back with a better perspective. That’s how we’re defining retreating. Are we saying rest is defined the same way? Obviously the methods can be different, like we just said, but to what end? Believer or not, what’s the point of consistent rest? Is it the same as retreating? Or do we have a slightly different take on the definition of rest, besides eating a block of cheese like Travis does?
Chris: I think the cheese is part of it.
Travis: Always look to the cheese. It’s a big block.
Chris: So rest is definitely a part of retreating, because when you retreat, you’re getting away from the action, right?
Mike: So we’re kind of saying it’s almost the same?
Chris: Maybe not interchangeable, but one is a part of the other. Rest is a part of the retreat.
Mike: That didn’t really define rest for me, by the way. That sounded like a maybe of a yes, but sometimes a no, of a retreat. I got a little lost there.
Chris: I’m having a hard time myself.
Travis: I think rest and retreat share the same characteristics in what you’re trying to accomplish. I just think rest is something that needs to happen on a more regular basis. We can’t retreat all the time.
Mike: That can be too much.
Travis: You’ve got to get rest for the daily battle, and then retreat for whatever you need that for.
Mike: Would you agree with that?
Josh: Yeah. What’s neat about the way our church does it is that the people on the men’s ministry team who are running the show and planning the event plan the big Thursday night dinner, and after that they can go away with their friends and just retreat. If we were all at one place, with structured worship, a speaker, making sure there’s coffee and snacks, it’d be busy for them, and they wouldn’t really get a chance to retreat, because they’d be making sure the show goes on according to plan and schedule. So it’s neat doing it this way, because it gives the people who’ve been planning the event time to rest as well.
Mike: So we’re saying rest is somewhat similar. You’re regaining perspective. You’re probably keeping yourself from burning out. Hopefully you’re moving from reactive to proactive, maybe on a week-to-week basis. The methods for a retreat are different; maybe it’s quarterly, or once a year. But rest, I mean, God commands it weekly. There’s a reason for that. It’s much more frequent than a retreat. The necessity of rest.
Travis: It’s like retreating on a smaller scale, in a sense.
Chris: I think this format is great, because we have Travis here, and he actually gets to be a part of this. He doesn’t have to go back and lead worship tomorrow and think about that and get back early and cut his experience short. He actually gets to participate, which is great. And I love that Josh, after a very busy week, is able to be here and sees the importance of that.
Josh: I slept so good last night. That little twin bed in there is so good.
Mike: He loves sleeping on tiny little beds at lake houses. He also had a block of cheese before he slept.
Chris: I slept on the couch.
Travis: You don’t need to humble brag.
Josh: There are six beds in here.
Chris: Yeah, I don’t need to humble brag, but it was me who said, “You know what? I’ll sleep on the couch so you guys can have your own rooms.”
Mike: I would say this is our first official roundtable discussion. These are our first roundtable guests. Very bonus.
Chris: Everybody take a chip, and thank you, everyone.
Travis: We should applaud. Applaud by chip.
Mike: Yes! Well, everyone, thank you very much. One, two, three. That’s really delicious. Hey, will you go get me some cheese?
Travis: And this is why you’ve now lost your spot on…
Mike: Give me the cheese, man.
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