Being Comfortable With The Uncomfortable
The guys talk about the importance of embracing discomfort and letting go of control. This process can be uncomfortable and challenging, but it leads to tremendous freedom and growth. It’s important to spend time with Jesus and develop a relationship with Him to discern His leading and find confidence in stepping into the discomfort. We should approach each day with open hands, asking God what He has for us and being willing to embrace the uncomfortable opportunities He presents.
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Why should a follower of Jesus embrace being uncomfortable? Mike Mobley and Chris Howard land here: discomfort exposes how much we want control, and it drives us to our knees, where the Holy Spirit can take over. Fresh off a family mission trip to Honduras, with no AC, no flushing toilet paper and a handful of plans that fell apart, Mike talks about showing up with open hands, letting go of his own agenda (even when his kids complained), and the freedom on the other side. With Chris drawing on his trips to India and friends who serve overseas, they cover fear of what others think, why chasing comfort never satisfies, why chasing discomfort for its own sake misses the point, and how to walk into an ordinary workday with open hands. Below: the key takeaways, the Scriptures discussed, and the full episode transcript.
Uncomfortable in Honduras: Physically, Mentally, Spiritually
Mike, his wife and kids went to Honduras with four other families, 16 people in all. It was his kids’ first mission trip. The physical discomforts came fast: no AC for a guy who runs hot, toilet paper you can’t flush, water you can’t drink and bugs everywhere. Mike notes that this is more normal for most of the world than life in the US. Ask the team if they were comfortable, and he figures 100% would say no. Chris presses deeper: what about mentally and spiritually? The team prepped, prayed and did devotionals together, but Mike compares that kind of prep to premarital counseling. It’s a must, but it only goes so far. Then you’re actually there.
Show Up With Open Hands: “Sounds Good to Me”
Mike’s posture for any trip, and honestly any day: here’s our plan, but it’s very possible none of it works out, and you’ll pivot a million times. Chris remembers a phrase he and his wife learned before trips to India: “Sounds good to me.” Mike’s team had their own: “I love long lines.” Their church has sent teams like this for almost two decades. Mike sees the same arc in every team. Sixteen people show up with 16 different ideas of how it will go. Around day one or two, each one has to let go. By the end, God has used all 16 in 16 different ways, and their confidence in the Lord is through the roof.
Discomfort Drives Us to Our Knees
We either fight discomfort or embrace it, Mike says. On a trip like that, there’s nowhere to run, so it forces you to step in, and that drives the Christian to pray for the Holy Spirit to take over, because we can’t do it in our own strength. Chris defines comfort as control, or at least the control we think we have. Before Mike believed, he lived for himself and his comforts. Even now, he admits he never wakes up saying, “Let’s go be uncomfortable, kids.” Then his confession: when one of his kids started complaining on the trip, he got frustrated that it was distracting from the mission. God showed him he was being just as selfish. Discipling his own children was part of the mission all along.
The Hidden Work of Opening Your Hands
Chris calls open hands an exercise. The more you do it, the more naturally your hands open the next time. He’s watched friends from 121 move overseas into hard places and adjust to a whole new normal. Mike adds that what we don’t see is the quiet day-to-day wrestling: gripping something, letting go, grabbing it back. For him, it’s preaching. People assume a former actor loves public speaking. He doesn’t. Every time, he has to get over himself, let go of how he’ll be perceived, speak God’s Word faithfully and leave the results to Him. There’s tremendous freedom when he gets there. His challenge: whatever you just thought of when asked “What would make you uncomfortable?” might be exactly what God is calling you to do.
Why You Need Time With Jesus to Step Into the Uncomfortable
Fear of what people will think can stop us cold. Mike’s answer is real time with Jesus. He shared this with a translator in Honduras who, like Mike, grew up with a lot of religious rules but little talk of a relationship with Jesus, and who is still learning that he can know God as a son knows a father. Without that relationship, Mike says, he’d never say yes to anything uncomfortable. And confidence misplaced in ourselves just makes us the idol. Chasing comfort doesn’t satisfy either. How many celebrities reach the top of the mountain and say, “I’m not satisfied here”? So for the person headed to work tomorrow, not Honduras: spend time with the Lord, open your hands, even physically, and ask, “What would You have me do today?”
Don’t Chase Discomfort, and Don’t Judge Someone Else’s Comfort
Discomfort for its own sake isn’t the goal. God may call someone to sell everything and move, but the church is one body with many parts, and a right ear doesn’t look like a left elbow. If you don’t know what He’s leading you to do, spend more time with Him. His yoke is easy and His burden is light, and He’s right there knocking. Chris asks about the nice car or the media room. Mike won’t judge. Either can be godly or selfish, and it comes down to the heart, like the widow’s two coins or the inside of the cup. He and Joelle move forward with confidence when they know the Lord has spoken, even when others disagree. His closing word: the things that make you most uncomfortable, or that you keep wondering why other Christians aren’t doing, may be the Lord tapping you. And Chris’s summary: be comfortable with not being comfortable.
Scriptures From This Episode
Matthew 11:28–30 (My yoke is easy and My burden is light) · Revelation 3:20 (He stands at the door and knocks) · 1 Corinthians 12:12–27 (one body, many members) · Mark 12:41–44 (the widow’s two coins) · Matthew 23:25–26 (the outside of the cup)
Go deeper: Pushing Through Discomfort · Finding Comfort In Discomfort · Finding Freedom in Lack of Control · Scripture on Control · Seeing God Work Through Obedience · Scripture on Courage
Full Transcript, Not Quite There, Episode 13: Being Comfortable With The Uncomfortable
Mike: It’s the relinquishing control, which we’ve talked about. Here’s our agenda, here’s our schedule, here’s our priorities, and saying, “Okay, but wait a minute, God, let’s make sure they are Your priorities and agenda.”
Mike: Ladies and gentlemen, we are back after a small hiatus for the July 4th break.
Chris: Ooh, “hiatus.”
Mike: And then some of us were traveling out of the country. Thank you. My vocabulary grew recently.
Chris: How well are you holding down the Spanish language now? Are you fluent?
Mike: “¿Dónde está María? María está en la biblioteca.”
Chris: She’s always in the library.
Mike: You know, I talked about this with our team. Is it possible, with Maria in all these Spanish books, that she’s been the librarian?
Chris: You heard it here, folks.
Mike: Mind blown. Have you thought about that before?
Chris: I am now. I’m thinking about it all the time now.
Mike: She is probably the librarian. For those of you who don’t know what we’re talking about, if you study Spanish, I think anywhere in America, some of the early textbooks, and I’m not making this up… You’re looking at me like I’m making this up. Chris does not believe what I’m about to say.
Chris: I fully believe what you’re saying.
Mike: A lot of the textbooks use the example, “¿Dónde está María?” So, “Where is Maria?” And…
Chris: She’s the librarian.
Mike: “María está en la biblioteca.” It doesn’t say librarian, don’t be silly. Which means?
Chris: She is the bibliotechnician.
Mike: Okay. No!
Chris: Stay strong, Maria.
Mike: Maria is in the library. So yes, we recently traveled to Honduras, me and 15 other people. So we took a little NQT break, but we are back with fresh content, cutting-edge content, some would call it.
Chris: We are cutting? Okay.
Mike: Yeah, brand new. Chris is really not excited to be back. I think he wants another week off.
Chris: I’m glad to be here, Mike. There we are. I’m glad to be here.
Mike: How have you been feeling lately, besides watching the All-Star break in baseball?
Chris: I’ve been feeling strong to quite strong.
Mike: Feeling strong? Have you had cheese lately? You’re feeling strong, my friend.
Chris: This obsession with cheese, Mike. We’ve got to nail this down. We’ve got to find out what’s behind that.
Mike: I think it’s Seinfeld’s fault, because of the “Summer of George” and the references.
Chris: Just the picture of George in the swim trunks. I can’t…
Mike: For some reason, there’s always a guy with freedom lying on the couch eating a block of cheese. I don’t know why. I can’t make this stuff up. It’s in my head. What do you want me to say? If I don’t say it, I’m not true to myself.
Chris: Stay true.
Mike: Don’t you want me to talk about what’s floating around in my head?
Chris: Do that. Keep doing that. Don’t mind me. I’m just going to push back a little at times.
Mike: Please do. Always feel free to push back. So, good week for you over the last week?
Chris: I would say so, yeah. Nothing to complain about.
Mike: Did you go out of town for the Fourth, or watch fireworks anywhere?
Chris: We watched fireworks from an unexpected place. There’s a little warehouse part of where I live, and if you find the right spot to park, you can see the fireworks there.
Mike: A warehouse spot? Like, did you go on the roof?
Chris: No, actually, we just parked between some warehouse buildings. Perfect location to see the fireworks display.
Mike: How’d you find that location? Like, the dark web was talking about the city you live in and where to go?
Chris: I’d prefer you don’t bring that up.
Mike: We won’t tell anyone the location.
Chris: Exactly. Why don’t you just hang out with us on July 4th next time and see some fireworks through some warehouse buildings, and be okay with it?
Mike: Trying to think what we did. We were at a pool party at my brother’s place for the Fourth, which was great. And then our neighborhood does so many fireworks. It’s like a city.
Chris: Amateur fireworks?
Mike: Yes. I’m going to say, on a serious note, it’s a step above amateur. It’s kind of intense. Not exactly what a city would do, but it’s pretty close.
Chris: All this is legal, right?
Mike: Yeah. A hundred percent legal. Everything is legal. This is not financial advice. What other clauses do we need to say? So we also went on a mission trip. Us as a family, with four other families, went to Honduras.
Chris: I feel like you’re showboating right now.
Mike: Just got back. What have you done with your life?
Chris: I mean, we just watched some fireworks through some warehouses, and you’re traveling to do the Lord’s work.
Mike: You saw fireworks without having to get up from the couch while you ate cheese. And then we left the country, and you went to a warehouse, and that’s all you’ve done.
Chris: That’s all I’m going to admit to.
Mike: No, no. We recently got back, a couple of days ago, and it was a great trip. Lots of processing from that trip. But it was a really, really good experience for everyone, including the kids. It was their first time to ever go.
Chris: So you took the kids. You had your wife there.
Mike: My wife, she was there.
Chris: Wife and kids serving together on a mission trip. That sounds like it’s right there, perfectly in your comfort zone, right?
Mike: Oh man. No, no. I don’t know about you, but going to a third world country, right? Because we’re in first world land. Is that how that works?
Chris: We’re in the top tier. The Premier League.
Mike: Sometimes I get them backwards. Is Honduras considered a third world country? What’s a third world country? Like poverty, lots of poverty?
Chris: Things like that. We can find a definition, but usually they’re not doing as well economically.
Mike: We might put that in the show notes, so it may or may not be in there. But anyway, traveling for seven or eight days to a country where…
Chris: You traveled for seven or eight days?
Mike: No. I didn’t realize the whole episode was under a microscope.
Chris: The criticism.
Mike: The criticism is strong from Mr. Warehouse over there.
Chris: Hey, people want to know.
Mike: No, it’s a short trip from where we are in Texas down there, a handful of hours, whether you do one or two planes, whatever. But being in an area where there’s no AC… I don’t know if you know this about me, but I tend to sweat a little bit. I run a little hot sometimes. So, no AC. I’m just listing off some comforts here, and this wasn’t the priority, so please hear me when I say that. No AC. The plumbing is kind of weaker in a lot of countries around the world. You can’t flush toilet paper. The water’s not safe to drink. You’ve got to have bottled water. There are bugs and flies and all that stuff everywhere. Again, that’s more normal all around the world versus the US. For those of you who have traveled outside of the country before, we’re really more the minority of the world. But it’s hard to know that without leaving, right? Because you just think everywhere is like this. So, doing that with kids, every family having kids… I would say if you were to ask the team, “Were you comfortable?” I think you’d get a hundred percent of everyone saying they were uncomfortable. But that can be a good thing.
Chris: So what I hear there is you kind of lead off with the discomforts that are primarily physical, right? No AC, flies buzzing around.
Mike: They’re really surfacing.
Chris: No place to put the paper.
Mike: Nope. Gotta throw away that paper.
Chris: So what about mentally? Were you comfortable mentally? Because we’re going to talk about that, and spiritually too.
Mike: So is that what we’re talking about today?
Chris: I think we need to touch on that, because you mentioned the physical. But “comfortability”…
Mike: Is that a word? “Comfortability.” Get your words right.
Chris: Were you comfortable mentally and spiritually?
Mike: So if that’s what we’re talking about today, comfort and uncomfortableness, segue à la Chris Howard. Go us. So I would say we prepped. It’s not my first time out of the country. It’s been a handful of times, but it’s the first time with my family, the first time for our kids. We prepped as a team. We prayed, we did a lot of devotionals, and we felt prepared going in.
And honestly, you have to treat every trip, and all of our days, like this, but especially on a mission trip: you kind of show up, in my opinion, with open hands, and you go, “Okay, here’s our plan, but it’s very possible 100% of our plans are not going to work out at all.” And you’re going to pivot. You’re going to pivot a million different times, right? That would be a good sound effect to have. “Pivot!” We need to get that on there. “Pivot! Pivot!”
So I think we were prepared. But we were uncomfortable in a lot of different ways. What are we doing exactly? What are we going to do if this happens? What if our kids are falling apart? And all that actually did happen. So along the way, there were different levels of being stretched. Not just physically, but being stretched mentally, emotionally. Seeing people, and a lot of the world, live in ways that you’re just not accustomed to seeing up close. So a lot of discomfort.
Chris: So across at least three different areas there, physical, mental, spiritual. The preparation for the physical, you’re not going to really know it until you feel it, unless you decide to turn your AC off in Texas, maybe get some moldy cheese…
Mike: And let the flies come in. That’s gross, man. I can’t believe you’d bring up cheese again.
Chris: You can prepare for it, but until you’re actually there… The mental and the spiritual, it sounds like being part of a team that is meeting together, praying together, doing devotionals together, talking through some of the potential challenges, all of that is helpful in getting you comfortable. No, I don’t even want to say comfortable.
Mike: It’s prepping you. I would say a lot of people don’t even do the things you just said right there. That prep is absolutely necessary. Not because it’s going to make it comfortable or fully prep you for the whole trip. It’s just to give you some form of a springboard into what you’re stepping into. But like you said, until you’re actually there, there’s only so much you can prep for. It’s kind of like a couple with premarital counseling. I’d say it’s almost a must for any relationship, but it’s only going to go so far. Then you actually get married, and you go, “Oh, this is marriage.”
Chris: So our church, one of the many things I’ve seen us do really well over many years, almost two decades now, has been going on these kinds of trips. And it’s just part of our DNA. I remember, even when we were small and occupying a small room, these were things that we were talking about: getting outside of your comfort zone. If you’re going to serve those across the world, then it means going out to them. So this kind of preparation has become something of a norm here: planning, meeting, preparing.
One of the things I remember prior to going to India… there were a couple of trips that my wife and I took to India.
Mike: How long ago was your most recent trip?
Chris: Oh boy, 2009, I would say. So I haven’t been back to India since. But one of the things we learned before stepping off the plane and encountering such a huge difference in everything you could taste, touch, hear and smell was to say, “Sounds good to me.” So if we need to pivot and do something different: “Sounds good to me.” Are we going to do this instead of that? “Sounds good to me.”
Mike: We had a similar phrase. Let’s say you were standing in a long line. The phrase would be, “I love long lines. I wish we could get more long lines.”
Chris: And it helps, right?
Mike: Because you’re just embracing it.
Chris: And in advance of facing that situation, you already have a plan to follow. When things don’t go as expected, though, how does that tend to play out? These are the things you don’t prepare for.
Mike: Well, you’re asking kind of a critical question. Why discomfort? Why is it good, or why should the follower of Jesus embrace being uncomfortable? And what happens when you find that discomfort? So we go on a trip like this to Honduras, and you’re all sorts of outside your comfort zone. You’re reaching out to people you’ve never met before, including team members. You’re all living together for a week. Everything’s there. And to not embrace it means you’re going to fight it. We’re either going to fight discomfort, or we’re going to embrace it. And maybe a version of fighting is running away, but basically you’re fighting it.
If you do that on a trip like this, there’s nowhere to go. I guess you can say no and kind of sit in a corner and not do anything. But you don’t really have a choice. It kind of forces you to step into the uncomfortable, which then, in my opinion, drives the Christian to their knees to pray for the Holy Spirit to take over, because we cannot do it in our own strength. So there’s something to be said for the necessity of the Christian to embrace the uncomfortable. Because if we take a step back, how would you describe comfort?
Chris: Really hard to define.
Mike: Right. So if you and I were not embracing being uncomfortable, then what are we doing?
Chris: I know we’re trying to build something for ourselves where we can feel safe, I guess, right? That doesn’t make us have to be uncomfortable. In general, that’s it. We don’t have to decide on things that we don’t know about. We don’t have to push our bodies to a limit.
Mike: Almost like we have more control. Well, we think we have more control.
Chris: I think that’s a great way to define it. We’re looking for control, right?
Mike: Yeah. And I guess I’m verbally processing it with you right now.
Chris: Which is all coming to you, listeners. We’re just going with the flow right now.
Mike: Did you feel the need to sidebar that, like a little advertisement? “Brought to you live, listener: this verbal processing section of our episode.”
Chris: We are verbal processors.
Mike: You also looked over at the wall, and there’s nothing on the wall. We just broke the fourth wall. “Hey, listener, thanks for being here.” No, I know before I was a believer, I was absolutely living for myself. And if you were to break it down, I totally had to be in control, because I’m God in that scenario. But also comforts. I don’t know why I wouldn’t drift toward my comforts. Why be uncomfortable? That just sounds stupid. I guess the world will say you’ll grow or mature when you give this speech at Toastmasters, or when you do a good deed for a random stranger. But even if I thought that, I don’t know, 98% of my day would go toward comforts, or me being in control. And I still drift that way now.
So now, as a believer, I don’t wake up every day thinking, “Man, good morning. I really want to be uncomfortable today.” I don’t know about you.
Chris: Let’s put that in soon.
Mike: “Breakfast is over. Let’s go be uncomfortable, kids.” I’m never doing that. So I know it makes me face my selfishness. It makes me either embrace it or fight it.
Chris: And these mission trips tend to put a real spotlight on the need for control pretty quickly, right? If you’re going to a third world country and you’re not sure what the water situation is going to be, or the food situation, or how you’re going to sleep, then you might carry some plans into that trip. “I need to bring this particular pillow. I’m bringing this particular food, because I’m not going to eat anything there.” Or just being worried about things that kind of take away from the trip. Do you find that that’s a part of the trip too? Is that pretty common?
Mike: I think everyone experiences that in different ways. Let’s take a couple of different examples. Someone might be scared about the sleep. So they might bring a whole bunch of drugs with them, thinking, “I’m going to load up when I go to sleep with a bunch of over-the-counter…” I’m talking about legal drugs. Over-the-counter. OTC. Someone may think about that. Someone brings some snacks, because they’re worried about the food. They’re worried that if water touches their skin, they might get really sick. Others are terrified of the language barrier, where they might only know “¿Dónde está María?” and nothing else, so they’re afraid to talk.
I’m not the expert. I’ve done a good handful of trips. There are people out there who’ve done 50-plus mission trips. But what I see as a general consensus, let’s say on this trip we had 16 people: you get 16 people who show up with 16 different views on how it’s going to go. No one’s right. No one’s got it down perfect. But by the end of the trip, hopefully everyone, and everyone did on this team, which was awesome, leans into the Lord, embraces the uncomfortableness, and then they open their hands and allow God to use them. We had 16 different people used in 16 different ways with their skills and abilities, and by the end of the trip, the confidence in the Lord was through the roof. And that can’t happen without some element of letting go. For the average person, maybe it’s about day one or day two: “Okay, we’re here. I’ve got to embrace it. It’s time to let go.”
One story about that for me, and I was not expecting this, so this is also public confession time. There are a lot of Mike confession times on this podcast. Where are all your confessions? We need a Chris confession time, a Chris confessional.
Chris: This was recently, in the future.
Mike: Well, whatever. I’m just kidding. People can only see the face you’re giving me right now. It’s like, “Where is this coming from?” Dear listener, this is also the time where my co-host Chris and I get in a punching match over the microphone.
Chris: Well, I’ve talked about a kidney stone. I guess that’s not personal enough? Or lack of sales?
Mike: We need more.
Chris: We’ll push it a little bit more, for the people.
Mike: No. One thing that I was not expecting… man, this sounds so bad saying it. So we’re serving with our own kids, which has never happened before. And there were a couple of times I had to pull one of my kids aside, because some selfishness was coming out of them, like it does with any of us, adult or child. Honestly, they were getting uncomfortable, so what was coming out of them were some complaints. And while I’m pulling them aside to address that, and trying to do it in a loving way, I’m feeling frustrated, because I feel like it’s a distraction from the mission. And I know the Lord was telling me in that moment that I was being just as selfish by getting frustrated. I was missing the bigger picture. From the 30,000-foot view, the whole mission included what we were doing on the ground, and it included the discipleship of my children at the same time. But for some weird reason, and we’ve talked about this, I’m still kind of struggling with it, I tend to separate them, and I was getting frustrated in that separation.
So by about day two, I had to also let that go and go, “Okay, I don’t quite get this. It’s not comfortable for me. I’ve never done this. I feel split, almost. Split focus.” But it’s like, no, wait a minute. This is all part of it. This is all part of the trip, and that’s okay. It’d be the same thing if you were in India and there’s a detour. You had plan A on the docket, but then you had to focus over here on the side on a whole other issue that had nothing to do with the original plan. Well, that’s what God had in mind. And so it’s the relinquishing control, which we’ve talked about. Here’s our agenda, here’s our schedule, here’s our priorities, and saying, “Okay, but wait a minute, God, let’s make sure they are Your priorities and agenda.”
Chris: Sounds good to me.
Mike: Right. And if they’re not, then I don’t want to do it. But we don’t tend to let that go easily. You know what I mean?
Chris: I do. And it’s good for you to recognize that too. I think that really helps for any future mission trip, or anything else that takes you out of your comfort zone. It doesn’t have to be a mission trip. “It doesn’t have to be the way that I’m picturing it. What is the main goal here? What’s the thing to be learned? What’s the thing that God is trying to show me?” And that tends to take a bit of the pressure off of you, I would say.
Mike: I think so. I just envision opening your hands. I think the process of opening your hands is really difficult. But by the time they’re flat-out open…
Chris: Mike is opening his hands right now.
Mike: I am opening my hands for the listener. Thank you, listener. I think when you open your hands, the pressure does actually go off. I think that’s when you know you’ve given it over to the Lord. Honestly, the pressure releases, and you’re like, “Okay, whatever You’re going to do.” But until you get there, I think it’s a tough process. Do you find yourself naturally drifting toward comfort, afraid of stepping into the uncomfortable?
Chris: Definitely. I’ll just go from my perspective: you want to find a place where you can make decisions based on what you know. And part of that is having control over things, or at least perceived control.
Mike: Where you think you have it.
Chris: But I like what you’re talking about here with the open hands, because it’s an exercise, right? The more that you do it, the more your hands tend to open when you’re facing other situations. And we’ve definitely seen this, especially in our circles here around 121. Again, not a pitch for 121, but it is a pitch for 121, because it’s a great place. We’ve had a lot of friends who have gone and lived overseas. Tough situations. It definitely pushed them and their families out of their comfort zone. And to see them in that environment, when we’ve gone to visit them, and see what they’ve been able to acclimate to and what became their new normal, it’s just mind-blowing. That’s a process of them continuously opening up their hands and taking on those new challenges. And you see it even today, when they return to the States or they’re on their next assignment: they keep those hands open.
Mike: And sometimes we visit them and we’re almost shocked, or we really admire where they’ve gotten to, which is great. Praise God for that, and it deserves that admiration. But what we probably don’t see is the day-to-day of learning to open their hands. The darker, quiet days when no one’s really watching, and you’re just wrestling. You’re gripping onto something, and then letting go, and grabbing it back, or trying to run away while you’re holding it. It’s just that huge battle.
I’ve had that with public speaking. I’ve had that with preaching. Terribly uncomfortable with public speaking, which is funny. People assume that I would love public speaking, I guess because of acting and things like that. No, no, no. Public speaking, or preaching, is incredibly challenging for me. But it has required me, and this is for me, I’m not saying this is for everyone, to kind of get over myself. To let go of the worries about how it’s going to go, or how I’m going to be perceived, the performer side of me, whatever. And go, “Okay, God wants me to speak, and I’m going to speak His Word. He’s just talking through me. I’m just going to be faithful to that, and the results are up to Him.” And that’s a process. But then, like you said, there’s been tremendous freedom when I finally get there. I have to do it every single time. I have to go, “Okay,” and then God does it, and there we go. But I still have to go through that process. And like you said, it is an exercise, but it’s a very challenging exercise.
And it makes me wonder, for us and for anyone listening: what is something right now that you are holding onto? When we say, “What would make you uncomfortable? What’s a step of obedience that would make you uncomfortable?” chances are you just thought of something that’s on the table for you right now. And you’re like, “I don’t want to talk about this.”
Chris: Because we don’t get to hear what you’re being called to do.
Mike: Yeah. We don’t get to hear your public confession, although you could always call in and leave us a message and let us know. But that would make me think: when you say, “You know what? I would never want to do blank,” that might be what the Lord’s calling you to do.
Chris: It just might be. And keeping those hands open. Continuously asking. And you touched on something here that I think is worth exploring. You mentioned what people might think. I know that can be pretty powerful. “What is somebody going to say when they find out that I’m going to do this?” You might fear somebody detracting you from it. “Why do you want to do this?”
Mike: “I think you’re a weirdo,” or “You’re not fit for the thing we’re talking about.”
Chris: Thinking that it’s not going to work out, or that you’re not going to get support. That could be a real hindrance between what God’s calling you to do and something you have to work through. How have you worked through that before?
Mike: I think by spending a considerable amount of time with Jesus. I’m talking real time. I talked about this with one of the translators in Honduras, actually. He has a history of being brought up with a lot of rules. Similar to me. With the Catholic Church, and this was my experience, I’m not saying it’s everyone’s experience with the Catholic Church, but my experience was a lot of rules, a lot of regulation. A relationship with Jesus was not talked about in my circles. It was the same thing for him. He became a believer about a year ago, and he’s still learning, “Okay, I can grow in my walk with Jesus, like a friend, or like a son with a father. There’s an actual relationship there to be had.” He’s still learning that. We’re all still learning that.
If we’re not developing our relationship with Jesus, I don’t know how to do what you just described. What if someone asked me to go to Honduras on a mission trip? Unless I know the Lord is leading me in that direction, man, I don’t think I’m going to say yes to anything that’s uncomfortable. What would my motivation be, in my flesh, to say yes to the uncomfortable things? I think in my spirit, with the Holy Spirit leading me, I would say yes more often. But there’s no way I can do that without spending time with Jesus, right? Otherwise you’re just getting the opinions of others, or it’s your own flesh leading the way. There’s no way we’re going to step into the uncomfortable as the norm without Jesus leading the way.
Chris: No, that’s where we get our confidence, and that’s where we also maybe get a clearer picture. Because I know we can certainly conjure up images of how it’s going to go, or just think negatively about what it’s going to look like, instead of getting an accurate picture, and maybe even psych ourselves out a little bit. “If I speak, then this could go wrong, or that could go wrong. If I’m asked to speak in front of these people…” And maybe we miss out on the opportunities there too.
Mike: Or your confidence can be misplaced in yourself, and you go, “Well, I’m awesome, so I’m going to do amazing at this uncomfortable thing.” You’re kind of the idol at that point, and then you look down on others and bulldoze over them because you’re willing to be the uncomfortable person. I think some people step through the uncomfortable with that kind of confidence. But at the end of the day, and I would challenge anyone on this, I think you’re still feeling empty when that’s done. You may feel accomplished, but by the time you go home, there’s something about it that’s not fulfilling.
Which could be the same case with chasing our comforts. You might love eating the Cheetos, the crunchy Cheetos, by the way. Or maybe in this case it’d be the puffy Cheetos. It could be a little lazier. It all applies. So you love eating the Cheetos, but at the end of the day, you’re not feeling good about it. Even if you say you’re feeling good, it’s a facade. You know you’re not feeling good about that. So how far can you go chasing the comforts, knowing they just don’t satisfy? How many athletes or celebrities, or articles do we have to read where someone gets this many millions of dollars, this many marriages, this many possessions, and they all say the same thing? They get to the top of this, quote, mountain, and they say, “I realized I’m not satisfied here.”
Chris: Yeah, we have to read 10 articles in order to understand that. But you’re right. It doesn’t satisfy.
Mike: I don’t think so.
Chris: And not everybody is going to rush out and go on a mission trip, right? They’re not going to face something at this level, but they are going to face things every day. And they’re going to hear that siren’s call to say, “Stay in your comfort zone. Don’t speak up there in the meeting. Don’t take that opportunity. Don’t try for that new position.” They’re going to run into all sorts of different things. So what would you say to the person who’s just going to go to work tomorrow, and not to Honduras?
Mike: That’s a good question. I was going to ask you that question, but you asked me first. So I guess I have to answer first.
Chris: Thanks for that. Put you in an uncomfortable situation.
Mike: Oh, hey. Live opportunity. I’d better embrace it. You’re folding your arms, like I am too. Okay. One, I would encourage someone, and I have to do everything I’m saying here too, to spend time with the Lord. Read His Word, pray, especially as you start the day, but all throughout the day. And the only reason I’m saying that, it’s not to oversimplify things, it’s just that you’ve got to be in tune with Jesus to know what in the world He’s even saying to you, or how He’s leading you.
So in your workplace, for example, I think you’ve got to spend time with the Lord, and then look at each day with a fresh perspective. “Tomorrow is whatever day of the week. I’m going to wake up, I’m going to open my hands, and I’m going to go to work with my hands open.” I firmly believe if we were that intentional with our day, we would notice a lot more. We would see some curveballs with intentionality behind them, and go, “Ooh, I think this is actually what the Lord’s doing,” and embrace it.
Because when you go on a trip, you’re out of your surroundings. You’ve literally been transplanted to another area of the world, so you don’t have a choice but to wake up and go, “Okay, this is day two, or day three. My hands are open. What are we doing today?” In reality, that’s actually our everyday lives too. And that’s something I’m trying to learn after this trip: why can’t I just wake up today with the exact same mindset? And I know it’s probably because of my rhythms, my schedule, my family, my responsibilities or my distractions, whatever’s here. But isn’t it the same principle? We wake up and go, “Okay, God, what do we have today?” So I think even asking that question as we go to work, even starting on our commute, makes a massive difference.
Chris: Sounds like a great start. A great question to ask.
Mike: Like, “What would You have me do today? Specifically today? You know I’m going to be in this office, or on this phone call, or on this Zoom, or I’m going to stay at home and have this time with the kids, or I’m going to be at school, whatever it is. God, You know that. So what would You have me do today?” And that posture of open hands. I mean, even physically, open your hands in the morning and pray like that.
Chris: So if that meeting gets canceled, or something happens where the day doesn’t start out the way you thought, or end up the way you thought it was going to go, your hands are open, and God may surprise you with something completely different.
Mike: Yeah. Chances are, if you’re frustrated or wondering, you haven’t been looking around. Okay: stop, pray, open your hands. I’m not trying to oversimplify. It’s just what comes to mind as a simple way we can ask God, “What are You asking me to do?” Especially the uncomfortable things that will make me depend on You even more, because that’s going to be the best thing for us.
Chris: What do you say to the person who says, “Okay, well, if that’s the case, then you should chase discomfort. You should look for discomfort around every bend and say, ‘If I’m not uncomfortable, then I’m not doing it right'”?
Mike: Yeah, that’s a popular mindset. Some people will say, “Mike, that’s great. You went to Honduras. So why don’t you go to Honduras every day, or go live in a village out in the middle of nowhere and sell all of your possessions?” And like you said, “You should be uncomfortable all the time, and if you’re ever feeling comfortable, you’re completely disobedient.” I’m not going to say that there isn’t a time the Lord may say, “Sell your things and move here or there.” But I would probably question the motivation at the end of the day if it’s chasing discomfort for discomfort’s sake. Is the Lord calling you to do that? I don’t see the call on the church at large for every single person to do the same thing. In fact, it’s all these different members of the same body. If you just think body parts, a right ear is going to be different from a left elbow.
So I would sometimes question the motivation. Again, not saying an answer can’t look like that. But I know people who chase poverty for the sake of poverty, and I think they’re missing the mark. I’m trying to say that humbly, with grace, but I think that’s the wrong motivation. Again, what is the Lord leading you to do? And if the answer is, “I don’t know,” then I think you need to spend some more time in that relationship. And if it’s, “Well, I still don’t know how to spend time with Him,” okay, take a breath. Open your hands. Take the pressure off yourself. Jesus says, “My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.” He gives rest to the weary. God’s not in the business of trying to frustrate someone and keep them frustrated while they’re looking for Him. He’s right there, knocking on the door. So most of the time, that’s us getting frustrated over what we think time with the Lord should deliver to us, versus a posture of open hands: “Jesus, have Your way with me today,” and just being open to that.
Chris: Yeah. It really seems like you’re giving room for God to speak to you in that kind of relationship, where you’re not holding on to anything. You’re not saying, “It has to be this way, and it has to fit what I perceive and how things have to happen.” But, “God, what do You have for me?” It’s an everyday thing too, right? Because we’re not supposed to spend too much time in the past, and we’re not supposed to spend too much time in the future. But given the present day, giving over our schedule, giving over our hopes, giving over our dreams, giving over even what’s best for our family, not knowing exactly what’s best for them, and asking God to help them keep their hands open. What a great prayer, or what a great opportunity to pray that.
Mike: It makes me think of the disciples. They became different people, years and years into it, learning how to keep their hands open and being used. And look where we are today. You and I, or anyone listening, we wouldn’t know anything about Jesus without them being faithful in the uncomfortable. Them embracing the uncomfortable. So that would have to mean that this year, 2024, there are things God’s asking us to do that are uncomfortable. I hate to say it, but we’re obligated. We’re followers of Jesus. We’ve given over our rights. We’ve got to step into that. There are so many bigger things at stake, not because of us, but worldwide, that the Lord’s accomplishing in Honduras or in Texas or in the US. Embracing the uncomfortable is not just good for us. It’s better for everyone, right? It gives even more people the chance to know and follow Jesus.
Chris: You’re right. One of the things that I know can kind of cloud the message, too: if anything resembles spending on yourself, on something you enjoy, or luxury, maybe a nice car or a media room in your house, and those things aren’t inherently bad… what would you say to the person who says, “Okay, well, why aren’t you spending it on something else? Why aren’t you giving that media room money over to missions?” So take us there.
Mike: Man. Just tackle that one little topic. That’s a big topic. It’s on you, buddy. I’m never going to look at someone… So, for example, let’s take the fancy car. Let’s say we’re looking at someone who has a Tesla. It’s a 90K car, whatever, right? Different things may pop into your brain when you see someone driving one of those. That person might be a millionaire and the most generous person ever, and they also have a Tesla, right? We can be just as selfish or stingy whether or not we have a Tesla. So I’m not going to look at the person. That doesn’t mean I’m not tempted to at times, but I’ve got to kill it. I’m not going to make judgment calls on someone’s motivation. I don’t know where someone’s at.
And so I think having a media room can be amazingly godly. It can also be the most selfish thing in the universe. But it’s not because it’s a media room. It’s the heart behind it, the motivation, the use of it for the glory of God or not. What’s the ultimate goal with it? God’s given us desires and preferences and things that I think can stir our affections for the Lord, honestly, even through some of our possessions. So you can’t write them all off for the sake of that. You have the widow giving two pennies, and people complaining, and the Lord going, “She’s given more out of her two pennies than so many of you who have given so much more.” It’s a heart motivation at the end of the day.
So we’ve got to be careful. And social media is terrible for it. We judge the person on the outside, just like the Pharisees did. And Jesus is like, “You clean the outside of the cup. What about the inside of the cup? What about the heart behind that?” So I think what you’re getting at is maybe even judging the comfort. And I don’t think that’s on us. Chris, I can’t even look at you and judge your comforts. You could eat a block of cheese, and that could be God-glorifying.
Chris: Or it could be…
Mike: Or it could be the most selfish thing. The Summer of George might somehow be godly, but it also might be terribly selfish. I don’t know. I know there are times when Joelle and I will press into the Lord. We know He’s told us to do blank, and we move forward with confidence. And 100% of the time, not everyone’s going to agree with us. That’s okay. But I only grow in that confidence if I know the Lord’s told us to do it. If I didn’t lean into the Lord, the first person who’s uncomfortable with what we’re doing would make me start questioning it. If someone came around and said, “Why would you take your family to Honduras? Don’t you know about this or that?” If I didn’t know the Lord was telling us to do it, I’d probably not go to Honduras, because I got some resistance from someone. That’s such a crucial thing. So we can’t judge the other person. We’ve got to press into the Lord.
And the last thing I’ll say, because I know we’re going to wrap up soon: I know in my little bit of experience, in my walk, the times I’ve been the most uncomfortable are, 99% of the time, the Lord telling me to do something. And it’s probably for my own development, and to die to my own selfishness. Likewise, when I’m in a scenario and I’m looking around thinking, “I wonder why someone’s not doing this or that,” again, 99% of the time, it’s the Lord telling me to do it while I’m looking around. A lot of us ask, “What is the Lord calling me to do? I don’t know.” I would ask you, and anyone listening: what are the things that you’re most uncomfortable with? Or what are the things that you keep wondering why other Christians around you aren’t doing? I feel pretty confident it’s very strongly possible the Lord might be tapping you to do it, which is why you can’t get it out of your head.
Chris: That’s a very valid point.
Mike: Such a long pause.
Chris: It is. It’s one of those things where you’re thinking, “Yes, I agree with you.” And then on top of that, being obedient to what God is calling you to do, you have to have your hands open each day. You have to keep them open, keep opening them. And confession, here’s a confession for you: it’s very easy to judge what others are doing, and I’ve done that.
Mike: Me too.
Chris: For my own comfort, to say, “Okay, well, now I can understand that, because it seems like they’re not doing this well in other areas.” So it makes me feel better about myself. But guess what? I’m not comfortable staying in that way of thinking, because ultimately I’m like, “God, are You pushing me out? Do You want me to do something more?” Because staying here and thinking like this is not very helpful, and it’s not doing anything for You.
Mike: Well, it’s the curse of comparison, right? Comparison is never a win. It’s a lose-lose. Either you end up being better than the person or thing you’re comparing yourself to, so you get cocky, or you think you’re less than, and then you dwell in that guilt. And neither one is looking at the Lord at all. So with any comparison, I’m just as guilty. I do it every single day. I probably did it an hour ago. I’ll probably do it five minutes from now. It’s always a loss. There’s nothing godly that comes out of it.
Chris: Nothing helpful from that. Right.
Mike: No. Okay, so as we wrap up, what do you think is a takeaway for us?
Chris: I think what we’ve been talking about here is keeping our hands open, being available, and not having it be what we picture, or the results being what we need to have happen, but really asking God to show us as we step through being uncomfortable. And just to be comfortable with not being comfortable.
Mike: Ooh, good line. That should maybe be a title.
Chris: Coming to you soon.
Mike: What do you think about that for a title? Yeah, let’s do that. We’ll get some cheese after this.
Chris: Fine. We’re going to have a block of cheese.
Mike: Thanks so much for joining us. Please consider rating and reviewing our podcast and hitting subscribe on whichever platform you prefer.
Outro: Remember to keep moving forward, because we’re not quite there.
