Extending Freedom Worldwide Through Business | Mark & Amy Latham (LIVE from Latitudes in Southlake, TX)
Mike and Chris speak and crunch cheese puffs with Mark and Amy Latham, Directors of Latitudes, a non profit existing to market and advocate for artisan-based small businesses around the world who seek to impact resource-deprived communities, particularly in poverty stricken regions.
Learn more about Latitudes, shop, and get involved at https://latitudestx.com
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What does it look like to extend freedom through business? For Mark and Amy Latham, directors of Latitudes in Southlake, Texas, it means buying and selling goods made by artisans in hard places, people who are marginalized because of caste, disability, poverty or faith, so they can earn a living, provide for their families, and see the gospel lived out in daily relationships. Recorded live at Latitudes, over puffy Cheetos and extra sharp cheddar, Mike Mobley and Chris Howard hear how God gently turned the Lathams’ ship over seven years, from a sales career and a storm shelter association presidency to life in India and 13 years of nonprofit work side by side. They also talk about why compassion often has to come before conversation, the hard reality of protecting the people whose stories they can’t tell online, and how you can get involved. Below: the key takeaways, the Scripture discussed, and the full episode transcript.
What Latitudes Does
Latitudes, originally called Heartcraft, helps launch employment projects for people who are forgotten, isolated or marginalized. Someone living in-country starts a workshop and trains artisans, and Latitudes helps develop a product line, buying and selling it until the business can stand on its own. Today they work with 23 projects in 12 countries. “To give someone latitude is to remove obstacles and give them freedom,” Mark says. They do it because everyone is made in the image of God, with the ability to create as He creates.
Compassion Before Conversation
A deep spiritual conversation with someone who doesn’t know how to feed their kids is almost impossible. Steady income gives people safety, and working side by side lets them see the gospel in human form, gentle, kind and patient, until they ask why. Mark points to Jesus, who saw the crowds and had compassion because they were like sheep without a shepherd. Street evangelism has its place, but most stories of faith involve someone loving another person unconditionally over time. It’s crock-pot Christianity, not microwave Christianity.
God Gently Turned the Ship
Amy’s turning point came in their living room, when Vince Rice shared that IJM had just rescued a four-year-old girl from trafficking. Mark’s came on a church vision trip to India, where stories of dreams, visions and healing felt like reading the book of Acts. Over about seven years, God gently redirected them, and they asked, “Why not us?” Even small details confirmed the call, like their daughter choosing to fall asleep to Christian songs in Hindi. Mark walked away from 13 years of sales commissions, and Amy says God changed her heart of stone to a heart of flesh.
The Stories They Can’t Tell
Many of the communities Latitudes serves are hostile to Christians, so the Lathams have to protect the artisans as much as they promote them. Mark shares the story of a young woman in a remote village who was at risk of being trafficked. A workshop paid for her schooling, taught her a trade, and brought the name of Jesus to a place that had never heard it. Those stories can’t be posted online, so they’re shared in person at the showroom. Mark wept after one artisan thanked him for her job, and he feels both the joy and the weight of the work.
Two Yeses, 25 Years and an Open Hand
The Lathams made Latitudes a destination store with high-quality products, so people buy again instead of making a one-time pity buy, and leave changed by God’s story. Amy admits that if they had known how hard it would be, she would have said no and run. But working side by side with Mark has been surprisingly beautiful. Mike notes that God often reveals our steps on a need-to-know basis. Mark adds that Paul plants, Apollos waters, but God gives the growth. That open-handed posture takes the pressure off, so you can just be faithful with what’s in front of you.
How to Get Involved
Shop at Latitudes in Southlake, because the more they sell, the more they buy, and the more they buy, the more artisans they employ. Give the products as gifts, many with cards that tell the maker’s story. Support the staff who raise their own salaries, join or sponsor their golf tournament, volunteer in the showroom, and invite friends to come hear the stories over free coffee. Their model is employ, equip, empower. Learn more at latitudestx.com.
Scriptures From This Episode
Genesis 1:27 (everyone made in the image of God)
Ezekiel 36:26 (a heart of stone changed to a heart of flesh)
Matthew 9:36 (Jesus had compassion on the crowds, sheep without a shepherd)
Romans 1:20 (God revealed in creation, so that no one is without excuse)
1 Corinthians 3:6–7 (Paul planted, Apollos watered, God gave the growth)
James 1:27 (caring for widows and orphans)
Deuteronomy 5:12–14 (Sabbath rest for servants and animals)
Also mentioned: a church study in Amos, and the book of Acts.
Go deeper: Scripture on Compassion · Be The Gospel or Preach The Gospel? · What About The Person Who Has Never Heard The Gospel? · American Dream VS The Gospel · A Convincing Case for Small Group Community with Vince Rice · Checking Yes to Serving in the Czech Republic with Adam McBride
Full Transcript, Not Quite There, Episode 21: Extending Freedom Worldwide Through Business | Mark & Amy Latham (LIVE from Latitudes in Southlake, TX)
Mark: And she’s speaking another language. So the interpreter finally said, “She thanked you for employing her. Because without us, that business would never have gotten off the ground.” And I walked out of the building and I wept.
Mike: You even have the echo going right now. The reason Chris is singing and is very happy: it’s the first time ever we’re on location. Not Quite There, on location. Listen to the roaring applause. Thank you. Thank you, everyone.
Chris: Where are we at today, Mike?
Mike: We are at Latitudes, located in Southlake, Texas.
Chris: South of the lake. The mean streets of Southlake. We are here. Yes, indeed. We’ve made it.
Mike: First ever.
Chris: I’m excited. Are you excited?
Mike: I’m very excited. Okay, you’re just going straight to the guests? You weren’t going to ask about my day or anything like that?
Chris: Why do you keep asking personal questions? It’s getting intrusive. Okay. How was your day?
Mike: It’s really great.
Chris: Now, why is it?
Mike: I’m eating some puffy Cheetos, courtesy of our guests here at Latitudes in Southlake, Texas. You’ve got to get closer to the mic. People need to hear the crunch.
Chris: That was a puffy Cheeto unlike any other. And sitting in front of me, what do I have?
Mike: What do you have here? Oh, a block of cheese. Extra sharp cheddar. Another thing courtesy of…
Chris: Laid out by our friends…
Mike: Which are who?
Chris: Mark and Amy.
Mike: Mark and Amy Latham. Here in person. What a delight. Who do we have to thank for the puffy Cheetos?
Mark: Not Mr. Latham.
Amy: That would be me.
Chris: Yes. 15 to 20 years of seeing this kind of hospitality shown my way, and to many others here. We go back quite a ways. I think we were in a life group together early on. These are OG members of 121.
Mike: Oh, thank you. They were looking at me when you said that. I didn’t know that. Is that where y’all met for the first time? Small group world?
Chris: 121.
Amy: Oh, yes.
Mike: Okay. Where did you two meet for the first time?
Mark: The two of us? First Baptist.
Mike: First Baptist. Okay. Was that in a small group?
Mark: So I’ll be transparent.
Mike: We’re very honest here.
Mark: I met Amy because she taught aerobics with my wife.
Mike: Okay. There we go.
Chris: This is the second time I’ve heard this kind of story.
Mike: I thought you were going to say more there, but that’s okay.
Mark: And then I was singing in the choir, and we did an Easter pageant, and she was a dancer.
Amy: Hey, careful.
Mark: She was a dancer in the musical. Thank you. Good clarification. Like an angel dancing around after the resurrection, that type of thing.
Amy: I was not an angel. I did not herald anything.
Mark: So we got to know each other then. And a funny story: at one point, one of our friends asked her, “If you were ever looking for a guy, what would you be looking for?”
Amy: No, no, no, no. It was after a church service. I was standing with my two friends, and Mark comes bebopping up in his little double-breasted suit. That’s the term.
Chris: Did you have a vest?
Amy: No vest. Double-breasted suit.
Mark: Back when I used to wear suits to church.
Amy: Right. And his little Coca-Cola tie. And he comes bebopping up in all of his handsomeness. I was a single college girl at the time. And he said something witty and then just walked away. And I’m like, “If I could clone Mark Latham, that is who I’d want to marry.”
Mike: In that moment. That’s all he needed to do.
Mark: I didn’t hear this. She was not coming on to me.
Mike: So let me recap. You were bebopping, walking up, you said a phrase, you walked off.
Mark: That was it. My nickname used to be Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. So I was a bebopper.
Amy: Maybe I should have said… what’s the word for sashay that’s more masculine?
Mike: I don’t know. The bebopping was pretty good.
Amy: He strolled.
Mike: He swaggered. Good swag. And good phrasing, apparently. It just took one phrase. I’m very impressed.
Amy: It technically took more than that, but I knew of him.
Mark: So fast forward years later, that same friend invited me to have dinner at their house with her, and we became reacquainted, hanging out after church. A couple of months later, we defined the relationship.
Mike: You had the DTR. Wow. Did you initiate the DTR?
Mark: Yeah. We were both at a point where neither of us was looking for a relationship. I had just gone through a divorce, and the last thing I wanted was to get back into a relationship. And so I said, “Hey, I just want to be honest with you, but man, the more time I spend with you, the more time I want to spend with you.”
Mike: Swagger right there. That is swagger. Did you pick up on that? Guys, be listening for that.
Mark: Feel free to use that one.
Chris: Adding that to my arsenal.
Mike: Oh, yeah. We’re writing that down. Did you write that down on the legal pad over there?
Chris: Next to the block of cheese that Amy Latham laid out for me.
Mike: Sorry. If you’re hearing Cheetos, you’re actually going to hear that all throughout today’s episode. So there you have it. Okay, a couple of random questions. Not a lot of thought has been given to these. They’ve just come to top of mind. For either one of you: have either of you ever had speaking lines on TV? Just curious.
Amy: That would be a no, Bob.
Mark: Nope. But I was interviewed on television. Thank you, Michael.
Mike: You’re welcome, Marcus.
Mark: I was interviewed on The Weather Channel many years ago, when we were selling a product that was used for a tornado shelter. In my previous career, I sold industrial composites used in heavy equipment, mostly oil and gas, but we had one line of ballistic panels that was eventually made into a safe room. At the National Home Builders show, we were showing our product, and a guy from The Weather Channel came by and asked about it. We went through the technical aspects, and he said, “Hey, can I interview you? This is a really cool product.” So later this crew filmed me sharing what it was about. This was after the big tornado that hit Oklahoma City and the hurricanes that had gone through Florida in 2003, 2004, 2005. It was something people thought, “I need this in our house.” So I was interviewed and put on The Weather Channel.
Mike: Were you wearing a suit?
Mark: I was not. I was wearing a dark striped shirt. And he’s like, “Just so you know, don’t ever wear stripes on camera.”
Mike: Stripes. Everybody knows that. How many times did you say “industrial composites” or “ballistic” during your interview?
Mark: Once or twice, just to explain what it was.
Mike: He said that really seriously. I was hoping it was like 17.
Chris: Me too.
Mike: That’s okay. Weather Channel debut. Very good. Did you have a question over there? I feel like you’re ready for one.
Chris: We’re going to do some appetizer questions here, on top of the one you just asked. I’m still just happy to be here at Latitudes with the Lathams.
Amy: We’re so happy that you’re here.
Chris: Because we go back like family. I’m sorry if you’re feeling left out.
Mike: What are you talking about? I’m right here. This is family, having Cheetos. This is a great day.
Amy: He literally is family. He’s Uncle Chris to our kids.
Chris: You didn’t know that, did you?
Mike: That’s a surprise. I guess I’m the fourth person. I’ll just listen in to the family. You guys just have some Cheetos.
Chris: Favorite movie character?
Mark: I have so many that I could go to.
Mike: We talked about that ahead of time. You can’t do The Princess Bride now.
Amy: That’s going to be a slow death for him if he can’t use The Princess Bride.
Mark: I’ve got to go Robert De Niro in Heat.
Chris: What’s the famous line he says in that scene?
Mark: If it comes down to you and me, I will take you out.
Chris: Can you say that again?
Mark: When it comes down to it, I will take you out.
Mike: Do you think they were eating Cheetos during that scene?
Mark: The director probably was.
Mike: Do you think it would change the intensity of Heat if that same scene played out while they were eating Cheetos? They’d rename it “Cheat.” Oh, and you got the Amy laugh.
Chris: Question for Amy. This is a special question. We didn’t even plan this one. So dad jokes get a bad rap, but since we are open to the female opinion here…
Mike: We are very open. Both audiences, male and female.
Chris: How come mom jokes are not a thing?
Mike: She looked at Mark.
Amy: I always look at Mark. I mean, we have too many things to do. That’s why. I don’t think of corny jokes.
Mike: I’m going to interject here as the youngest person and the non-family member at the table. I’ve heard mom jokes. I get it, we’re busy, but there is such a thing as a mom joke, and they’re equally cheesy. Can I say that? Am I going to get blackballed for this? I’ll see myself out.
Mark: Unlike men, women don’t have a part of their mentality that stays an eight-year-old boy. That’s where our dad jokes come from. It’s the immature eight-year-old part of us.
Mike: I believe that. So basically, since a little boy does not reside inside of a woman, there’s no such thing as mom jokes.
Chris: I think we’ve answered it here.
Mike: You’re welcome. We figured it out. Speaking of solving the world’s problems, good segue: do you speak any other languages?
Amy: I mean, no. Spanish, just because Señora Chavez was very scary in high school, so those Spanish words are built into my brain. But not near fluent. Definitely not fluent. Oh, I’m so glad you asked: “María está en la biblioteca.”
Mike: It’s finally happened. This is incredible. First official guest we’ve ever had who knows it. María está en la biblioteca, because María is in the library. She’s a librarian in the library. She lives there at all times. How does everyone not understand this? This is Spanish 101.
Amy: Poor María. Why is she always lost?
Mike: She might be lost in the library. Maybe that’s why she’s been in there the whole time. No one’s ever found her.
Mark: She seems marginalized to me. Isolated, marginalized.
Mike: I seriously heard that from every Spanish 101 teacher, from like sixth grade on. Am I the only one? Oh, I am the only one. Okay.
Chris: But you’re family today.
Amy: And a little bit of Hindi. But I can’t roll my R’s.
Mark: I can’t believe you brought this up.
Mike: You really can’t roll your R’s?
Amy: So, there’s a thing. When we were in language school… well, it was a school to help you learn language well. They had a workshop: “If you can’t trill your R’s, come to our workshop. You’ll be trilling by the end.” Nope. Didn’t work. Because if the piece of skin underneath your tongue is too short, it inhibits your trilling ability. Back in the day, they used to clip that at birth. And the lady in the workshop said, “If you’re having any dental work, just have your dentist clip that, and then you should be able to trill.” So it comes down to the length of your skin flap.
Mike: Your under-tongue skin flap.
Amy: So mine is too short, or too long, whatever it’s supposed to be.
Mike: So would we have to get a clip?
Chris: That’s an image. What kind of drilling do they do for trilling? What kind of exercises?
Amy: Oh, it was lots of humiliating sounds that you had to make. You had to try to put the back of your tongue at the roof of your mouth while you were breathing out.
Mike: Can you try that right now? My practice was just saying “perro” over and over in Spanish. I can kind of fake it. I feel like it comes across. You hear the natural… no, I can’t do it. I’ve tried so hard. I’ve just given up and accepted it. I don’t have the under-tongue skin flap that you gentlemen have. Way to go.
Chris: We have a Latitudes product from India.
Mike: Okay. Last question, and then we’re going to turn it over to you for the meat of this interview. Have either one of you ever been the president of a group or an organization?
Amy: Oh, my word. That is just teed up for Mark.
Mike: That’s a weird coincidence, then. That’s a shocker.
Mark: It’s almost like we didn’t meet yesterday and have this conversation. I’ve got a whole pre-nonprofit career that most people don’t know about, from 2010 and before. A long time ago. But yes, I was the vice president, then president, of the National Storm Shelter Association, going back to the tornado and hurricane shelters.
Mike: Industrial composites. Very good.
Mark: We had a group working on getting the building code ratified for what storm shelters had to meet. And I was the president of that group for a period of time.
Mike: How long was this period of time, if you had to guess?
Mark: It was right before we left our careers. I think I was vice president for a year, then president for a year, and then I phased out of that role.
Chris: So you were vice president, then president, and then you were just done?
Mark: Yes.
Mike: Did you make people call you President?
Mark: Yes. They stood when I entered the room. They sang “Hail to the Chief.” All that.
Mike: And you had a big painting of yourself on the wall, as you should?
Mark: I had it attached to my back, so it was always behind me, ready to be shown.
Mike: That’s good. Very presidential.
Amy: I don’t mean to brag, but I was vice president of my class, and then treasurer.
Mike: That’s in the presidential category. Now you’re just humbling us. I didn’t realize we were going from president to all the other roles. So, President Marcus… can I call you Marcus? Is Mark short for something?
Mark: Nope.
Mike: Mark William? Are you Mark William the Third? The Fourth?
Mark: Nope. Original Mark.
Mike: The OG.
Chris: The Maker’s Mark. Here we go. Tell us about the Latham family. I would love to hear the Latham story, for those that don’t know you as well as I have for the past 15 to 20 years.
Mike: I appreciate you keep looking at me when you say that.
Amy: Who’s talking?
Mark: You were. So, we just had our 25th anniversary.
Mike: Oh, congrats. That’s exciting.
Mark: We were married in June, and 121 Community Church started in September. So we were newlyweds as we got into this church and kind of grew up there. Our children were later born in Grapevine. Creation Land, all that, at 121. So 25 years of our life there at 121.
Mike: How many kids?
Mark: Two. A son, Taylor, and a daughter, Audrey. They are both now in college, a sophomore and a freshman. So we’re empty nesting and enjoying it.
Amy: Loving it.
Mark: Our kids know we’re loving it. We love our kids, but we also like that they’re gone.
Mike: That’s healthy. That’s said with love, everyone.
Amy: It’s a double-edged sword. It’s sad and happy at the same time.
Mike: Like a bittersweet feeling? I can’t speak from experience, but I’m assuming.
Amy: Definitely.
Mark: There are moments that you miss them. You think about them. But then it’s also like, oh, we don’t have to worry about that. You can see them on Life360 if you need to. You know where they’re at, you know what they’re doing. You trust them to make good decisions. They’re both responsible.
Amy: We were just talking at the kitchen table about how, obviously, you love your kids, but as they’ve grown older, we really like them. They really are good humans. And we got to tell Taylor that when we visited him.
Mike: Did you tell him he’s a good human?
Amy: I believe I did.
Chris: A human child.
Mike: Well, it’s awesome. I think it’s probably a testimony to how y’all raised them as well. They’re good humans, as you said.
Amy: We still worry, because it’s kind of like when you send them out to drive. You’re not necessarily worried about their driving. It’s the crazy people around them. So yes, we know that they are grounded and they love the Lord, but it’s the world they’ve been thrust into. The worry for me is what’s going to be thrown at them. So, pick up where you left off.
Mark: We have finished 13 years of working together side by side. We’ve been in the roles we’re currently in for 12 years, but 13 years ago we stepped into this nonprofit ministry world, and we’ve been partners in an occupation, if you will, for 13 years.
Mike: So tell us about this nonprofit world.
Mark: For the last 12 years, we’ve run a business called Latitudes. It was originally called Heartcraft, and we rebranded it as Latitudes when we took over. We help facilitate sales of products made by artisans around the world. They may be an ethnic or religious minority group…
Amy: Enunciate your words.
Mark: Oh, sorry. An ethnic or religious minority group. There you go.
Mike: Good job. 25 years of marriage right there.
Mark: That’s real talk. They might have a disability, be low caste, uneducated. It’s the forgotten, the isolated, the marginalized. Someone living in that country sees a need and wants to help them through an employment project. They start a workshop, give them a skill, train them, and we help them develop a product line that we buy and sell for them as the starting point to launch their business. After they get to the point of having a marketable product, they can sell to anyone they want. We’re kind of the incubating stage, and then we try to keep supporting them through ongoing sales. We’ve been doing this for 12 years. The first four years we were in Orlando, and then we moved back to Texas to grow the business. We took over in 2012, and in 2016 we moved back here. So it’s been a long process of trying to get this to a position of stability.
Mike: And is that because starting a business or trying to create some kind of income is really difficult for people to do? So it’s helping them connect those dots a little easier?
Mark: In most cases, when you don’t have the option for education, you don’t have skills training. When we were living overseas, we had a house helper. It was customary to have that, and you had to wash your floors every day because of the dust that came in. Her daughter would come and help. She was 13, or she had no idea how old she was. She could not read. She could not write. She’d never been to school a day in her life. And we asked, “Why didn’t you ever go to school?” And she said, “Because I’m learning what I’m going to do for the rest of my life, because this is what my mom has done her whole life.” So the thought of doing something different, of having another plan or option for their life, in order to make a little more money so your kids can afford to go to school, because they had to pay for their kids to be in school in that country… they don’t always have the opportunity or even the vision to do something on their own. Or they’re being told they can’t because of who they are. There’s one group we work with whose name in Arabic actually means “unclean.” No one would buy anything from those people. But since they’re not the face of that product, it can be sold. So sometimes it’s breaking down barriers or removing obstacles. To give someone latitude is to remove obstacles and give them freedom. That’s part of the reason our company is called that. The purpose is to give them a sense of freedom and opportunity. And we do it because everyone is made in the image of God, and everyone has the ability to be creative as He is creative. Restoring somebody in a relationship with God through the ability to make something, and to be sufficient to provide for your family, is important. And to have a deeper spiritual conversation with someone when they don’t know how to feed their kids is almost impossible. If you want to get to a point of having a deeper spiritual conversation, they need to feel safe, and sometimes to do that they need income, the ability to feed their family, so they’re not constantly stressed about the basics. In many areas, that’s the first point of building a relationship. The other part is, when you employ someone and work with them daily, they get to see the gospel in human form as you are gentle, kind and patient. All of that comes out, and the question is, why? “Why aren’t you treating me the way other people treat me?” And the answer is always Jesus. This is how Jesus says to treat people. This is how we saw Him treat people. In the Gospels, you see Him feed, you see Him heal, you see Him in daily relationships, meeting people where they’re at. They didn’t have to come find Him in the temple and get into the Holy of Holies to have a relationship with Him. He was with them, dining with them. That’s what we see playing out in these businesses. It’s a daily relationship, side by side, where the gospel can be translated in a very personal and real way.
Mike: That’s awesome.
Chris: And so really, that’s what you mean by extending freedom. You’re opening up doors that may be closed, or could stay closed, for these folks, and now they’re able to produce income, provide for their family, and be open to more conversations that could introduce them to a life-saving relationship as well. Mark, you being the president of the storm shelter people, and Amy, since I’ve known you, design has been one of your great abilities. So you have leadership and things you can bring to the table. I imagine this wasn’t on your radar during the time that we met. This is something God provided a way to do. What have you seen Him do over that time that only He can do, that makes you say, “Wow, definitely Him, not us”?
Amy: One story that I always share when we share the Latham story: Vince Rice was in our living room, in the life group that you were coming to in our home. At the time, our church, 121, was doing a study in Amos, and 121 partnered with IJM. I was a stay-at-home mom doing a little bit of design on the side. I knew that human trafficking existed, but not to the degree where, like Vince said when he was in our home, IJM had just helped rescue a four-year-old girl that week. That wrecked me.
Mark: We had a two- and a four-year-old at the time, or a three- and a five-year-old.
Amy: And as a new mom, you look through completely different lenses. So when I heard that, it wrecked me. Back in the early days, Mark was leading the men’s ministry, and 121 took a vision trip to India to try to find some partnerships there. When he came back, that was 2003, Taylor was about to turn one. Mark was making pretty good money back then, and he was talking about visions and dreams and amazing things God was doing in the lives of people in India. And I’m like, “Good for you. Go back to making money.” So when Vince shared that in our living room… I knew my ministry was my family, number one. But that was the beginning of God moving. Your question is, what has God done? Well, He’s changed me. I would never have envisioned us living in India. We were newbies when we left for India. I know it sounds selfish, but that’s the biggest thing: for my heart of stone to be changed to flesh in the midst of all of that. I would never, ever have placed myself doing what we do at Latitudes, or living in India, had He not just radically come in. But He was very gentle, too. What do you always say about our ship?
Mark: We were a family on a boat heading one direction, and over the course of about seven years, God gently just turned us. By the time the opportunity to go overseas was in front of us, we were moving in a completely different direction. It wasn’t forced. It wasn’t harsh. It was gentle, and then the wind was behind us, and we were on a completely different course. The things we had our eyes set on previously were gone. Our eyes were focused on something completely different. And there were several things that happened family-wise, like retirements. You realize, am I pursuing the American dream? Am I searching for security and position? What am I actually supposed to be doing? What is the end goal of my life? Watching my dad retire, I thought, “Wow, is this where my trajectory is heading?” It makes you question and wonder. And then you get exposed to believers in other countries. So there are times where you feel certain parts of you have changed because of exposure to what you’ve seen abroad, and people you’ve met that you love and who are your brothers and sisters. You’re like, how would they have felt? You’re empathizing with them. If you’re not exposed to that, they’ve never come to mind.
Amy: There’s always been a heartbeat that’s run through, a fiber in the DNA of 121, from the very beginning, of being globally minded.
Mike: Could you tell during those seven-ish years that the ship was turning? Or do you look back and you can tell now? Not necessarily day to day, but throughout those seven years, could you feel that everything was shifting, even if you didn’t know where you were going?
Mark: Going to India and meeting people and hearing their stories of God breaking into their lives was like reading the book of Acts. My worldview and my view of God were radically changed over the course of 10 days.
Mike: Because you were seeing it in person, tangibly, humans in front of you.
Mark: Visions, dreams, healing. The things you hear about and read about but hadn’t seen in the Western world. People always ask, “What about the little lady in the village in India who never hears? Is it wrong that God would send her to hell?” And then you hear people say, “I was dreaming of Jesus, and then someone showed up to tell me who He was and confirm the story.” You realize that, as Scripture says, no one is without excuse. God reveals Himself to everyone, if nothing else, through nature. From what we’ve seen and heard, there’s an element of God’s story in every civilization. I don’t know if we’ve found a civilization that doesn’t have some emblematic component of God and His character in that community, because we’re all made in His image. They just may not know the connection to Scripture. So I had a quick awakening, but I came right back to my job and had the same long-term goals of financial stability and growth and promotion and all that. But as you see more and more happen, with more trips overseas with other people, you have this awakening, this stirring, a little bit of a passion for what’s going on in their world versus yours. Right before we went to India in 2004, they had the tsunami. When we got there, we knew people from that southern part of India whose family or friends were affected. So all of a sudden the news is different. When a story happens about something going on in India, it triggers a part of your heart that wasn’t alive before. But it really didn’t change our long-term goals or focus until we got into more of the justice side. You understand what some of these things look like in a different culture and a different society, and that we are called to be those who bring justice and speak justice. We care for widows and orphans. Those are things God calls us to do. One of our core values is taking care of people who can’t take care of themselves. In America, that’s kind of built in. In other countries, you don’t necessarily have that. The family is supposed to do it, but what if you don’t have family? What happens to those people? Then we took a trip to India in 2009. After the IJM component, they asked me to go back. I asked Amy, and she said yes. That was a big step. While we were there, we were asking workers who were already overseas questions like, “How do you live over here with your kids?” And then you stop and say, “Why did I just ask that? It’s a question in my brain and in my heart, but why do I need to know that?” And after that trip, we really sensed, why not us? Why wouldn’t we go? We felt like we had the flexibility, the ability and the desire. So we started researching, and we were praying, “God, if You’re calling us, are You calling our kids?” Because at five and seven years old, I didn’t want to take them to another part of the world, away from their family and friends. Is this fair to them? And the story I love to tell: our kids used to listen to one song each on my phone before they went to bed. And our daughter started listening to Aradhna. Aradhna is a fusion of Indian bhajans and Christian lyrics. The guy was a missionary kid who grew up in Nepal, and he had this incredible idea of mixing Hindi music, the language and the culture, with Christian words. She was listening to this in Hindi every night, a language she could not speak. And I asked, “Audrey, why did you choose that?” She said, “Because the album cover has a little mom and a little baby.” And I’m like, “Okay, God, You’re big enough for this too.” If our daughter can start listening to Indian bhajans to go to sleep in a different language, He is working on her heart as much as He’s working on ours.
Mike: And she found an attraction to it. She was drawn to it and kept listening to it. It was resonating with her out of all the songs.
Amy: And God was gracious to line up circumstances where neither one of us felt a peace. The road that we lived next to, they were going to expand it to six lanes, right by the side of our house. So we were like, “Oh no, we’re going to sell.” So we sold our house and found ourselves renting, because we didn’t have a peace about buying. We didn’t see the whole picture, but we saw little bits and pieces along the way. We could only explain it to people as, “We just don’t have a peace about A, B and C.” So He used our circumstances, because He was gracious.
Mark: We closed in October, moved into a rental house, went to India in November, and by January we were starting to ask questions about long-term: what would it look like to live and work overseas? The following year, we took our kids with us on a short trip to India with a team, and then we stayed another week to meet people who were living and working there. How were our kids going to see this part of the world? And you realize at that age how flexible they are, and what home means to them. Home means wherever Mom and Dad and my stuffed animals are. Those things are so flexible to children at that age. Our kids had a blast. And it’s amazing what can open up their eyes. You want to know what idol worship looks like? Walk through India. See all the shrines and temples and idols that are literally being worshiped, with sacrifices given to them to receive something back. I never knew what that looked like growing up. I thought it was something that happened 2,000 years ago. It was all part of a plan that God was weaving in and around us. And we heard so many times as we started down this road, “Oh, I could never do that.” And we’re like, “Well, we’re not special. We’re not martyr-complex people.” But God gives you a desire for something, and it’s like, how could I not do this? I get the opportunity to go and do this.
Amy: And something you said in another podcast resonated with me. I won’t get it exactly the way you said it, but if you do uncomfortable things, and you know God is behind them, and you come across opposition or questioning, you settle back into the peace God provides. God led us to this point. When people said, “What in the world? India?” some people thought we were crazy.
Mark: Oh, I had business guys who said, “You’re an idiot, walking away from your career. You spent 13 years building this, and you don’t keep getting commission after you quit. You realize that, right? Everything you’ve built as a commission sales guy is all gone.” And I’m like, “Yeah. And I’m fine with that.”
Mike: Sure.
Chris: Those are definitely things only God can do: giving you that world perspective, seeing the need, and giving you a heart for meeting it. And now you’re back here. I know it’s not an easy, straight path, but you’re here on the mean streets of Southlake, and people can walk in and hear more about what you’re actually doing and get a more comprehensive view. But there are a lot of things you can’t say about what’s being done, just for safety and security reasons. I know that’s very difficult from a marketing perspective. You can’t just open up and market the way you would want to. What are the things you want to see happen for Latitudes that ultimately end up helping a lot more?
Mark: This ties into your previous question about what we’ve seen God do. We could go through multiple podcasts of what we’ve seen Him do for us over the last 25 years, and after we gave up our U.S. dreams and aspirations and got into this nonprofit world, how He’s provided over and over again in so many different ways. When we get to what we think is a dead end or an obstacle and we’re ready to walk away, He opens another door that we transition into. It’s the same work. It just looks different. We’ve been in three different stores in the last six years, and been closed twice as we transitioned from one location to another. But what we really want to share is not what He’s doing with us. That’s an incredible part of the way we’ve changed. It’s how He works in stories like the ones I’ll talk about. If we have a partnership with an artisan group, for example, one video we show in our showroom is about a young lady who lived with her grandparents, and she was ripe to be trafficked in a little village with no opportunities. She had no education. Her parents had left the village for work, and men come through there and offer to pay for a good job somewhere else, and these young ladies usually end up in brothels, if not another very dangerous work situation. Well, a workshop opened in this village, and this young lady started working there, with the rule that she had to go to school first. They paid for her school, and after school she would come and work, so she had an income. Fast forward eight years from when this project started: she’s progressed through school. She reads, she writes, and she’s learned a trade, something she can keep the rest of her life and train her children in, a way to make income. And now she’s our sister in Christ. You have to really stop and think: the distance between this young lady and the gospel was larger than you can imagine. There are no churches anywhere near her. There is no Bible anywhere near her. There are no Christians. The name of Jesus was not spoken in her village. But now it’s there. And it wouldn’t have been allowed in the village if it didn’t come with a job. So what we sell here is great at providing income, stability, community, those types of things. But for security reasons, because so many societies, cultures and communities are against Christians and evangelicals, we can’t promote that. We’re biblical Christians who want to see God’s love shared in a compassionate way, and that Christ is glorified in the midst of that community. That’s our best asset: transforming lives and relationships. But I can’t put that online. I have to honor, respect and protect. So we’re always working with an arm tied behind our back, knowing we can’t use it. How do I share the best part of the story when I can’t share the best part of the story?
Mike: So what do you find yourself able to do? Over these 12 or 13 years, how have you found, “Okay, we can’t quite go here with it, so we’re going to try this solution, or try that”?
Mark: Personally, when someone is face to face with us, we try to be discerning, but we want to be as transparent as possible. The biggest issue is what I can post online. Every website is data mined now, and governments are looking for ways to discover more about every person. There’s facial recognition and other things out there. There are countries where it is happening, and they promote that it’s happening. So you have to be careful. If we have 23 projects, they may not all be under that type of scrutiny, but if half of them are, we’ve got to treat all of them as if they are. We’ve currently got an ad running on WAY-FM locally in Dallas-Fort Worth, and we’re trying to figure out how to start telling a story without being able to tell the story. Our first ad says our items have a story behind them: come learn what that story is. But how do I tell her story in a very short message, to get people to drive from another part of the Metroplex to Southlake if they weren’t planning to come here, to hear that story? I can’t tell that story online. I can’t post the video, but I have a video here I can show someone. I’ve got photos. These are personal relationships we have with these people. We’ve tried to visit as many of our teams as we can. We’re currently working in 12 countries, and I think we’ve been to eight of them so far. There are a couple we just can’t go to. If we were in their village, it would bring scrutiny, and we don’t want to do that. But if there’s a safe way to visit as a business person who’s buying products from them, I go do that, because we want to have that relationship. One of the things that moved me the most, and continues to energize me today: I was in a country visiting one of our workshops, and I just wanted to encourage and bless them before I left. And this little lady behind me, who had only been working there for a couple of months and hadn’t said a word the whole time I was there, started speaking, in another language. The interpreter finally said, “She thanked you for employing her,” because without us, that business would never have gotten off the ground. And I walked out of the building and I wept. I want to right now. Because of the weight of how God used us to help her and put her in a community of people who loved her. She’d never experienced that in her life before. That’s the joy of being able to do this. But there’s also a weight to it. I want to protect that woman as much as I want to promote her and advocate for her. That’s the fine line we find ourselves having to walk. And it’s frustrating, because you’ve got one arm and one leg tied. I feel hobbled all the time. Man, I wish we could just do this, but that’s not the world we live in.
Chris: This is just a portal here at Latitudes. The way you have it set up, and a lot of it has to do with Amy’s design background and your building background, is just top-notch. It rivals anything you’d see at Pottery Barn or World Market. You walk in here, and you have a coffee bar, which is amazing, and beautiful furniture and beautiful handicrafts. But really, the beauty is the stories that you can’t tell. That’s the hard part. So we want to ask you: what are ways people can be involved in extending freedom? What can they do that actually helps create more of these stories?
Amy: From the get-go, when we took over this business… You know how in marriage you always want to have two yeses, or two nos?
Mike: Yeah, you want to be on the same page.
Amy: I always say we had two yeses when we took Latitudes over that it needed to be a destination place, with a brick-and-mortar component. I have a strong burden that anybody who walks in from the surrounding cities has an experience here, and leaves with a beautiful product that has been very well made. That’s one of the changes we brought when we came on board. We have to have products people will return to buy, not just a one-time pity buy.
Mike: High quality.
Amy: High quality. Thank you. So we’ve achieved that. You can come in and get a high-quality product. But we want people to leave changed. I feel a responsibility, and I say this with humility, because I had no idea of the living conditions. Even the people living in the worst conditions here are better off than most people in other parts of the world. So I want this to be an educational opportunity, where people hear how people are being pulled out of situations and rescued and provided for, and they also leave informed that trafficking exists. Children are being exploited, women predominantly are being exploited around the world, or forgotten, or overlooked, not given an opportunity. I want people in the community to be changed when they walk out our doors.
Mark: But also to see that God sees each and every one of those women in that situation. His heart breaks for them, and He wants us to act for them. It’s not just coming in here and knowing that if I spend $20 on this item, it’s going to help somebody out. It’s knowing that God is already there helping that person, and there are other people there helping that person, and you can support it. This is a picture of God’s story. We want people to be changed, not by a product, or even by one young lady’s story, but by God’s story: the fact that He cares, and that He’s willing to break through barriers to rescue His children. But to answer your question, people can come in and shop, and that makes an immediate impact. The more we sell, the more we buy. The more we buy, the more we employ. Our premise is employ, equip, empower, and we do that through the sale of goods. So we’re a business with a buy-and-sell component, but we’re a nonprofit. We don’t cover 100% of our expenses through what we sell. Three of our teammates have to raise their salary through donations, so support is another way people can help. We have a golf tournament coming up on September 30th at Timarron here in Southlake. People can donate, be a sponsor, or come and play, and all that money goes back to our project account to help cover additional costs. People can serve, too. They can volunteer and come help us at the golf tournament, and there are times we need help around the showroom. And then share the stories. Buy a gift and hand it to someone. Sometimes our teams have a card telling the story behind the product, and some have pictures of the lady who actually quilted that blanket or sewed that item, so you can see the individual this product came from. Giving something like that as a gift shares her story and makes you an advocate for that person. And share what we’re doing, whether that’s on social media or inviting people: “Come shop at this place with me. You’ve got to hear the stories.” We’ve got a video that runs by our coffee bar that tells a beautiful story of one of our workshops. So when people come in, we want them to engage. We’ve trained our staff so that when people come in the door, they can hear stories. We’ve got 23 projects, and our staff can probably tell you about most of them: what country it’s in, the work that’s going on, the products they’re making, whether it’s leather, wood, metal, cloth, growing agricultural products like our coffee, pouring wax for candles. All those are individuals being supported through our work.
Mike: So really, when you come here, you’re joining in what the Lord is doing. I’m paraphrasing. Tell me…
Mark: That’s the invitation.
Mike: Whether you purchase something or learn more about what’s going on, whether you pass that on to someone or buy someone a gift from here, those are all different ways to join in on God’s story and what’s going on in all these different countries around the world, and even here at times in the West. Amy, I’m curious, and I’ll put you on the spot: what’s something that has surprised you since starting with Latitudes? It doesn’t have to be the top thing. No crazy pressure.
Amy: I think Mark alluded to it earlier. It’s a twofold answer. One, you don’t realize how hard it is until you’re in it. Had we known all the things we would go through ahead of time, I would have said a big fat no and run. So how hard it’s been has been surprising. But also, and I’ll try to say this without crying, my husband and I could not be more polar opposite. We’re a lot alike in certain ways. We’re very driven. We have that in common. But working with him side by side has been surprisingly beautiful. I love it. It’s been hard, especially the first years, which were very rough. So that would be my answer: how difficult it’s been, but a good challenge. We all need to be stretched in our faith and go, “Okay, God, what are You going to do in this situation? Because this seems like a dead end.” And He’s like, “Nope, here you go.” And we’re like, “All right, then this is the way we’re going.” And working alongside my husband has just been beautiful.
Mike: Beautiful. Good word on not having the whole plan revealed. I’ll speak for myself, too. There are so many things I would never have said yes to if I had known. I would never have done this podcast if I knew the details now. But the Lord establishes our steps one step at a time, more or less on a need-to-know basis, on purpose, so as not to unveil it all. And then look at the fruit of that, and the amazing things. Like you said, it’s a beautiful picture. It’s a beautiful challenge for us. You end up most thankful and grateful for it, even though it’s hard along the way.
Chris: Mark, would you describe it as beautiful? The answer is yes.
Mark: Yes, I would. Working together is beautiful. After 25 years of marriage and 13 years of basically being coworkers, together 24/7, 365 for the most part, we really like each other. We love each other, we’re committed to one another, but we really like each other. I know the areas I’m weak in, she’s strong in, and I can hand those things off to her, and vice versa: the areas where God’s equipped me to handle things she doesn’t like doing or has never wanted to do.
Chris: Complementary.
Mark: It works. We work very well together when we get out of our own way. As long as we’re not putting ourselves first, it works great. And it’s made our marriage better.
Mike: 25 years’ worth. What did y’all do for your 25th?
Amy: Oh, we’re so glad you asked.
Mike: Oh, what did I walk into?
Mark: We had the opportunity to go to North Africa to visit one of our teams that’s currently making products for us, and one development team that’s making products we’re not currently buying. They had an opportunity open up this last year. They found a source that buys their products directly, and it’s currently filled their capacity. But the question is, what could we do with them? So they invited us to come visit. We spent about 10 days in North Africa, in two different countries, in late June and early July. Our daughter was in the UK, so on the way back we stopped there. That was kind of our 25th anniversary: time in the UK, seeing our daughter, because she’d been gone about six weeks at that point. Driving on the wrong side of the road, visiting St Andrews…
Amy: Mr. Darcy’s house.
Mark: Visiting Chatsworth, visiting Oxford. We took a train up from London to Glasgow and then drove from Glasgow all the way back down to London in four days, just seeing and loving it. A blast.
Mike: That’s an awesome way to spend an anniversary. Before we move to the intense part of this… I know this has been really intense. Thank you for hanging in there. I have a random question. You hit on something earlier that made me think, Marcus, I’ll call you Marcus since you said Michael earlier. You talked about when a Christian approaches someone and shares the gospel, they’re trying to introduce them to Jesus, but that person is trying to figure out where their next meal is coming from, and how it could almost be ineffective. That doesn’t mean God couldn’t do something in that moment. But how would you encourage someone to process that? Whoever they’re talking to, their neighbor or anyone, to be considerate of them and their needs and the person they’re addressing, along with the gospel. Sometimes we’re taught to just go share the gospel and move on. And there’s nothing wrong with sharing the gospel. I’ll be the first to say that. But I feel like you’re onto something. You can be sharing, but oblivious to the fact that the person is thinking, “I’m starving right now. I literally don’t have the capacity to hear what you’re saying.”
Mark: Street evangelism has a role. There are people who come to believe because they’ve experienced something completely different, and that’s where God meets them. But in this society, as in every society, there are people so overwhelmed with the problems in their life that an eternal solution makes no sense, because they can’t get past today. And I think the biggest thing we have to do is be aware. Don’t come in with an agenda and only live by that agenda. You have to understand where they’re at, where God has them right now, and how you can best meet them in that position. It’s not my agenda anymore. It’s His agenda. You see this where it says Jesus saw the crowd and had compassion on them. He was moved by who they were and where they were, because they didn’t have a shepherd. He took in the weight of the situation and of each individual in their position, and He was sympathetic to it. As Christians, we’re called to be that person of empathy and meet them where they are. I mentioned earlier that I went through a divorce, as a young 20-something. I’ve spoken to so many guys in the throes of divorce who think that’s the answer. And I get to speak into all the heartache and all the pain that you don’t hear about in society when they say, “Oh, this is a great solution. There’s someone else for you. Just go be happy.” That’s not what we’re called to as believers. Someone needs to talk about those pitfalls, the things you’ll never get past. They’re always going to be a part of your life. In the same way, you have to be aware of what someone is dealing with and speak to their heart in a timely manner. So it’s being self-aware, and also being aware of who they are and what they’re going through. If they’re starving, they may not care about eternity at this point. But at some point they’ll realize, “Okay, if God does care about me, and I am fed to some degree, maybe my eternity should matter. What is that like?” And you’ve earned the ability to speak into their life at a much deeper level than if it’s a passing, “I’m going to jump in your face. This is going to be Apologetics 101. I’m going to argue you to Christ.” Some places, that’s where you have to go. But most of the stories we hear are of someone who loved somebody unconditionally for months or years and spoke the truth, and finally something began to change. I don’t think it’s a microwave Christianity we’re called to project. It’s crock-pot Christianity. You need to let it marinate and let those flavors cook in, because there’s so much depth to God’s love and His character, and that just takes a while.
Chris: So they see that compassion before they’re called to comprehend the bigger story.
Mike: That can go a long way.
Amy: Can I share briefly about our house helper when we were in India?
Mike: Of course.
Amy: There was a language barrier. We could communicate very minimally with each other. It was mostly hand signals and me trying to work through Hindi with her, but she spoke Urdu.
Mark: We’d call a translator on the cell phone to speak to her.
Amy: She and her daughter would come every day. We would give her leftovers, because they were going to go bad, and she would take them. There was a bag of rice that had maggots in it, and I was throwing it in the trash, and she said, “Oh, no,” and she took it. We would give her clothing and food and money sometimes, and we had no idea the depth of poverty they were living in. Her husband couldn’t work, and she was the sole breadwinner, and they had multiple children. And then we had to leave India unexpectedly. Of course, on our end, we thought we were a failure. We were like, “Lord, what in the world? We wasted all of Your money. We wasted Your time. What was all this for?” Well, years later, three or four years into Latitudes, we heard that she had been handed off to some of our teammates, and then teammates after that, and then a teammate who was a nurse. She was helping that teammate, who noticed something was wrong and asked, “Can I pray for you?” It wasn’t a big “Jesus, heal.” It was more of a simple “Bless her. Help her.” And, well, Jesus healed her. And she told our teammate later, “I don’t want to pray to anybody else but Jesus now.” And she has become like an evangelist. Her whole family came to Christ. She went back to her village and shared about Jesus. So to your point, we weren’t even sharing the gospel with her. You have no idea what people are going through, and the impact of multiple people speaking into people’s lives. And to that point, too: read the room with people. Ask them how they’re doing.
Mike: Yeah. Take an interest.
Amy: Take an interest and show that you care. Ask them, “Hey, how are you doing? How’s your family?” Read the room with people and see where they’re at.
Mark: It can be as simple as doing the right thing. There was a time when she was having trouble with our landlord, and we had to protect her. I had to go have a confrontational conversation with the man we were renting our house from. That spoke the world to her, that we would be on her side instead of this wealthier man’s side. No one had probably ever stood up for her in her life. We were living the gospel. We couldn’t speak to her and share the gospel in her language, but we could live the gospel in front of her. We were also giving her Sundays off, and that was a sticking point with our landlord, because “it’s not fair for her not to work when everyone else has to work.” But we were sharing with him why Sundays are off, not just for us, but for those who work with us, and even your animals. What’s the biblical context for why the Sabbath is important? And that spoke to her. There’s a purpose behind it. God is behind it. That’s ultimately what you’re trying to convey: it’s not about Mark and Amy having a store selling stuff. It’s God behind all these things, and we just get to watch what He does and hopefully follow where He tells us to go, and see Him work. If we’re open-handed about it, it’s not going to look like Mark or Amy. It’s going to look like Him. That’s what’s really gorgeous and beautiful: when it looks like Him and not like us. You get to see Him work, and just try to be faithful with the little He gives you to do that day. Stay timely, stay present, stay aware.
Mike: I think the open-handedness takes the pressure off, too. You can really move in freedom, because you’re going, “Okay, I might be one of 45 people who’ve talked to this person, but it doesn’t matter what order I’m in, or whether I get the words exactly right.” Yes, read the room and have the awareness, but if you don’t have it perfectly, that’s okay. Just take a step, say a word, be genuine, because we can pick up when someone’s genuine or not. I think that posture of the open hand is so important: “Okay, God, today’s Your day, Your agenda, Your calendar, Your person in front of me. I just want to be faithful.”
Mark: Paul plants the seed, Apollos waters, but it’s God who causes the growth, right? Paul wasn’t the one doing the ultimate work. He was doing the tasks set in front of him, and it was God who was going to bring the growth and do the work that was so desperately needed.
Chris: I love it, and I love how it ties back to the name here: Latitudes. You’re giving yourself latitude to be open to what God’s doing, and you’re extending freedom to those you’re helping. And I found out something interesting today: in the Philippines, they take the “-ber” months, September, October, November and December, and celebrate Christmas that whole time. I think that’s fantastic, and I’d love that for you, because a lot of people are going to come through this area shopping. You don’t have to wait until November and December. I would love it if people came in September, October, November and December to be a part of this and hear the stories. So anybody listening in our area, put Latitudes on the map. Come out here, be a part of this, learn the stories, see what they’re doing and how it’s helping other people.
Mark: Meet our staff.
Chris: Meet the staff.
Mark: And we have Christmas items out year round. And free coffee.
Mike: And free coffee. With fancy machines. I want to make sure people heard that. Free coffee. Good coffee.
Amy: Premium coffee.
Mike: Premium coffee. Speaking of premium, I think it’s time to move to the premium lightning round. Everybody, I think it is time. Bam, bam, bam. Who did that?
Mark: Michael, you just did that.
Mike: That was the weakest air horn we’ve ever heard in the history of the show. So, Chris, why don’t you lead the lightning round this time? Quick rules of the lightning round: you can’t overthink it.
Amy: Oh, okay. I’m an overthinker.
Mike: You need to barely think. Quick reactions.
Chris: Who’s going first?
Mike: Figure that out. 25 years of marriage. Okay, here we go.
Chris: All right. If you could see any music artist in concert, who do you pick?
Mike: Long silence. It doesn’t have to be the perfect answer.
Amy: Oh. I need to breathe.
Mark: Musical group? I would probably say U2. But I would see Les Misérables live anytime I could.
Mike: We asked for one answer, but don’t worry about that.
Chris: I agree with both of those. Those are great. East Coast or West Coast?
Mark: Neither. Middle America.
Chris: Oh, he’s terrible.
Mark: East Coast would be my preference between the two.
Chris: Motorcycle or jet ski?
Amy: Ew, neither.
Mark: Since we were in a motor scooter accident overseas and almost died. We’ll just stay on the water.
Mike: These questions are terrible for them. We apologize.
Amy: We have issues.
Chris: Hopefully no issues with this one. Greatest sports team ever assembled? And you could include our soccer team that we played on together.
Amy: What year did the Mavs win? Not the Luka era.
Mark: They won in 2011. We were living overseas when they won.
Amy: The 2011 Mavs.
Mike: Yes. Dirk Mavs.
Amy: He’s going to say Michael Jordan.
Chris: Moving on. Best pizza in DFW?
Amy: Oh, yeah. Barna. Thank you.
Chris: Best coffee shop in town?
Mike: I know that one. Here.
Mark: Although we don’t open till 10 a.m., so that’s a little problematic. We just talked it up. I don’t want people lined up at 6 a.m.
Mike: 10 a.m., everyone.
Chris: So, dogs… perros… or cats?
Amy: Y’all, why are we…
Mike: Why don’t you choose? There’s division here.
Amy: I know y’all are all dog people. I’ve heard all of your podcasts.
Mike: You know us at all? But you’re right.
Amy: I was a dog person. I’ve slowly made my way over to cat. I love them both, but the qualities of a cat: their independence. They can pee on their own.
Mike: But they’re so stuck up.
Amy: Dogs are way too needy.
Mike: No, they’re loving.
Mark: Dog. 100% dog.
Mike: Thank you. Hey, my man.
Amy: Our daughter, Audrey, trained our cat to sit like a dog.
Mike: That’s kind of impressive. If you’re turning the cat into a dog, I think that’s a fair situation.
Chris: I’m okay with that. The more doglike the cat… She’s a cog.
Mike: She’s a cog. We love cogs.
Chris: Favorite comedian or comedienne?
Amy: Oh, Jerry Seinfeld.
Mike: Oh, nice. Old school.
Mark: I’m really old school. I grew up listening to comedians on LPs.
Amy: On vinyl.
Chris: Are you going there? Rodney Dangerfield?
Mark: Wow. Steve Martin.
Mike: Oh, I like Steve Martin. I’m sorry I gave you crickets.
Mark: There’s a current documentary out on Apple TV about his life. It’s amazing.
Chris: Love “King Tut.” Here we go. If you were a superhero or superheroine, who would you be?
Amy: Wonder Woman. I wore Wonder Woman Underoos growing up. Remember Underoos?
Mike: Nope.
Amy: You’re too young.
Mike: I’m not five years old at this table. I’ve already been kicked out of this family, and now I’m just a little baby.
Chris: What do you think Underoos are?
Mike: It sounds like an undergarment.
Chris: Themed undergarments, with a T-shirt that went with them. Superman or Yoda or something like that.
Mark: It was a set that looked like a costume, but it was underwear.
Amy: Well, my point was, I loved her so much. I wanted her invisible airplane and her lasso that made people tell the truth. I wanted to be her.
Mike: The truth lasso.
Mark: I have to stick with Wonder Woman too. The invisible jet.
Chris: Did not see that coming.
Mike: This is the last question. Here we go.
Chris: If someone were to narrate your life story, who would it be?
Mark: Well, since James Earl Jones just passed…
Amy: R.I.P.
Mark: I can’t go there.
Amy: I liked Chris Clayton’s. Was it Chris Clayton who said Matthew McConaughey? But that’s not my answer.
Mike: So you’ve both thrown out candidates so far that are not your answers.
Mark: Look, third wheel.
Chris: It’s a family thing, Mike. You wouldn’t understand.
Mark: Be open-handed, Michael.
Amy: Can I finish?
Mike: Yes. Sorry. We apologize.
Amy: I would say one of my kids. Is that weird?
Chris: No, no.
Amy: Maybe Audrey or Taylor could narrate it. Both my kids. Both.
Mike: 100% equally. Okay, Mark.
Mark: I’m going Chris Howard. His skills. Because that way you really get four or five people narrating your life story, not just one.
Chris: Right. Here’s your 10 bucks.
Mike: He has been known to do impersonations before. Sometimes we’ve had the real guests, like Mike Tyson and Christopher Walken, and other times he’s doing impersonations. In fact, wait a minute. Did Christopher Walken just walk into Latitudes here in Southlake to end the show? Christopher, you’re here again?
Chris: I was wandering around the mean streets of Southlake. South of the lake, we are. I come here, and I find the Lathams eating Cheetos.
Mike: Can I offer you a Cheeto, Christopher?
Chris: I think we should all take a Cheeto. Take it in our hand.
Mike: Oh, did I just eat mine early?
Chris: Get another one, Michael. It’s not your first rodeo. Somebody hand that man a Cheeto.
Mike: So, Christopher, what are we doing here?
Chris: We’re all going to take a bite of the Cheeto at the same time, and say goodbye. Ready? One, two, three.
Mike: All right, everyone. A little ASMR going on. Thank you very much. Mark and Amy Latham, here live at Latitudes in Southlake, Texas.
Mark: Come see us.
Chris: How do I get out of here?
Mike: Someone call the police. Chris, can you see him out, please?
Amy: Hey, can I say something? I just want to encourage you guys. I’ve been listening to you, and you guys put a smile on my face. I’m laughing in my car. My podcast time is generally in my car. God bless you for being obedient and stepping out and doing something you’ve never done before. You’re doing it well, and you’re honoring God in it. So thank you.
Chris: Wow. We say thank you, and we say the same to you. Love you, Lathams.
Amy: Love you.
Mike: I guess I love you guys too. Am I in the family? I guess I’m not in the family yet. Am I in now? I’m in the family. Here we go.
Mark: Thanks, Uncle Michael.
Outro: Thanks so much for joining us. Please consider rating and reviewing our podcast and hitting subscribe on whichever platform you prefer. Remember to keep moving forward, because we’re not quite there.
