Are You A Grown Up Man Child?
It’s time to put away childish things and embrace maturity. “Adulting” doesn’t have to be a negative thing. In fact, there’s great personal growth and fulfillment that comes with redeeming responsibilities.
Be careful not to isolate yourselves and run back to childish ways just because life gets difficult. Here are some warnings and dangers about this but some practical steps you can start taking now to grow up.
1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
1 Corinthians 16:13-14
“Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.”
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Are you a grown-up man child? Mike Mobley and Chris Howard dig into 1 Corinthians 13:11 (“When I became a man, I gave up childish ways”) and land here: growing up isn’t about worrying more. It’s about embracing the responsibility God has given you and finding real joy in it. From a box of G.I. Joes packed away at eleven to the grown man on the couch with the puffy Cheetos, they name what childishness looks like now (escaping, defaulting, living for the weekend), why it never satisfies, and how honest community and time alone with God help men grow up in Christ. Below: the key takeaways, the Scriptures discussed, and the full episode transcript.
The Day the G.I. Joes Went in a Box
Chris remembers the exact moment. He was eleven, new to Texas, and hoping to be friends with the cool kids in jean jackets and Swatch watches. When he saw them walking up to his apartment door, his Star Wars figures and G.I. Joes went into a box and never came out again. He grew up a little that day. Mike’s version came later: video games against his brother, until girls started coming around and gaming on the floor suddenly felt a little too childish. But the guys are quick to say toys aren’t the point. If you’re playing Star Wars with your kids, carry on. The question is what still has a hold on us as adults.
What Childish Looks Like for Grown-Ups
The caricature is easy: the grown man on the couch playing video games, not wanting to work, mooching off his parents or girlfriend, too lazy for the crunchy Cheetos. Chris thinks it’s usually more subtle: an attitude or habit that keeps you from discovering what’s best for you. Mike calls it settling, taking the path of least resistance every time. Chris borrows a picture he’s heard from John Piper: a baby asleep in a stroller at the bank, 100% content while the adults worry about money. That contentment is exactly right for a child. The problem is staying there as we get older, letting others carry what God has asked us to carry.
Growing Up Means Embracing Responsibility, Not Worrying More
Culture talks about “adulting” like a chore. Chris pushes back: being grown up isn’t measured by how many worries you have. It’s embracing responsibility and seeing the joy and value in stewarding what God has given you. That’s the progression Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 13:11. The markers of immaturity are familiar: self-centered, impulsive, “my tee time is my tee time, my man cave is my man cave, I’ve earned it.” The guys are clear that a man cave, a round of Madden or a long-day Topo Chico isn’t the problem. The problem is when it becomes the default, the escape you run to every time life gets hard instead of facing responsibility head on.
Fathers, Rebellion, and the Memories We Chase
Where does it come from? A father who modeled responsibility well helps. A father who was harsh, or a workaholic, can breed a quiet rebellion: “I’m not going to be like you, old man.” Then there’s nostalgia. Chris still remembers how crushed he was when Mike’s Dallas Stars beat his Colorado Avalanche in 1999, and Mike admits he and his brother cried literal tears when the Rangers won the World Series. Mike’s best memories are with his dad and brother, stomping on the metal bleachers at old Arlington Stadium. Those things are good in and of themselves. But when they become more than they should, Mike says, the Bible calls them idols. Underneath it all, we’re looking for satisfaction.
Work Is Godly, and Good Exhaustion Sleeps Well
After his parents divorced, Mike’s dad took on two boys in their formative years and modeled a strong work ethic. Mike has been paying his own way since about fifteen, and by his low twenties, working 12-hour days and paying his bills, something in him already sensed that stewardship and responsibility were right. Now he knows why: Adam and Eve were working in the garden before sin ever entered the picture. Work is godly. (And, as Chris notes, there were no puffy Cheetos in the garden.) There’s a good exhaustion that comes from loving your wife well, serving your kids and laying it all out. That man sleeps well. The one medicating with escape doesn’t, and deep down he knows it’s empty, just like that first bite in the garden.
No Man Is an Island: Grow Up Together, and Alone With God
The way forward is community. The lone wolf has been marketed to men since the John Wayne movies they watched with their grandfathers, but a lone wolf doesn’t stand very long. We need men who will be honest with us and take honesty back, like a team picking each other up. Mike points to 1 Timothy 6:11–12: flee these things, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness and gentleness. Don’t let the enemy tell you you’ll never grow up or you’re not good enough. That’s a lie. Chris’s closing word: be part of a group of men, but also take time alone for prayer, reflection and the Word, so that when you’re together you bring what God says, not just opinion.
Scriptures From This Episode
1 Corinthians 13:11 · 1 Timothy 6:11–12 · Genesis 2–3 (Adam and Eve already working in the garden before sin, and the bite that promised more than it gave).
Go deeper: How Do We Grow In Maturity And Why It Matters · Why So Many Men Are Bored And Drifting · Men: Act Like Men · Why Do We Still Get So Worked Up Over Sports? · Scripture on Work · Why Community Is More Important Than You Think
Full Transcript, Not Quite There, Episode 7: Are You A Grown Up Man Child?
Chris: (singing) When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things.
Mike: Oh man, people are going to be excited about what we’re talking about today. Chris has been singing for five solid minutes now.
Chris: It’s just catchy.
Mike: It’s catchy.
Chris: It’s catchy. Catchy verses.
Mike: You’re very excited about this.
Chris: It’s made for song. It’s made for sing-song.
Mike: You know, speaking of sing-song, I heard someone recently got an AARP piece of mail. In your mailbox. Interesting.
Chris: Oh my. I don’t know if I’m ready.
Mike: Was that you that received something? You want to tell the youth of America what AARP is for?
Chris: It’s not a childish thing. Okay. It is an elder man… It’s like a club. It’s not like a treehouse club. It’s like a…
Mike: What’s it for? It’s like benefits for 90 years old and up? Tell us. Not everyone knows what that’s for.
Chris: Maybe it starts at 50 and goes up. Do you know what it stands for, AARP?
Mike: A… artistic? No.
Chris: You don’t know yet.
Mike: No, I don’t.
Chris: So basically, for the people out there, that was bad grammar. “A artist.”
Mike: Now we don’t even know what you said. It’s something you get when you get a little older.
Chris: Yeah. Well, why don’t you… you know so much about it.
Mike: Well, obviously I’m not there yet. I haven’t got this in the mail yet.
Chris: You just walked right into that one.
Mike: Only one of us has gotten that in the mail. So I have not been privy to know what that’s for yet. I’ve just been told it’s for old people. I still don’t know what it is.
Chris: You got a problem with old people?
Mike: What is it? You still haven’t said what it is.
Chris: It’s a card that gives benefits.
Mike: For what?
Chris: For being an older person.
Mike: Like a 3 p.m. dinner at Luby’s? A coupon for the movies?
Chris: That’s just stereotyping old people.
Mike: What do you get with it? What do you get with it?
Chris: You get in the club.
Mike: Okay. I genuinely don’t know what it is, but I’m excited you got it in the mail. I feel like it’s a good milestone moment for you.
Chris: We can call it a milestone.
Mike: Okay. Okay. Well, apparently you’re not ready to talk about it yet, so we’ll tap into that insecurity in the future. We’ll do a whole interview on old age, maybe around your birthday. I think you’re turning 70 this year.
Chris: Again, a decade turner. Getting close to 50.
Mike: 50. That’s a snapper.
Chris: You just turned 40.
Mike: I’m feeling strong, my friend. Oh, feeling really strong.
Chris: Hey, Mike, that decade goes by…
Mike: Oh dear. Oh dear.
Chris: It’s going to go by so quick. Well, anyway, we’re not talking about older people today. We’re talking about… well, in a way. In a way. But what we’re talking about is childish things.
Mike: Childish things, as in putting them away. Like action figures, Legos?
Chris: Well, a little bit of a story that goes along with that. A little mental picture.
Mike: You know, it’s funny, before you get into that mental picture. This just in: breaking news. We have a special guest. That’s why I said breaking news, because you couldn’t know: this special guest heard what we were talking about today, and he called in. It’s funny. He called me. He didn’t call you. He left me a message, and he wanted me to play that for us and for our audience, on what he thought about this today. So let’s listen in.
Voicemail: Hey, Mike and Clint. Mike, Clint, how are you doing? It’s me, Mark. Yeah, that Mark Wahlberg. Yeah, I hear you’re talking about putting away childish things. I hear you’re talking to the men here. There’s a lot of man-boys out there walking around playing video games, wearing hoodies, doing all this stuff. That’s not making them go anywhere. They’ve got to do better, and you’re going to help them. Talk to them. Tell them. I mean, look at me. In the morning here, I’ve been working out, I’ve been running five businesses, I made pancakes for my family. Gluten free. I’ve had a full day. It’s not even nine o’clock. So yeah, I think putting away childish things is a good idea. Start getting those boys to be men. Not Boyz II Men. I mean, I had the Funky Bunch. That’s a lot better. You know what I mean? Say hello to your family for me.
Mike: Okay. Well, what do you think about that phone call? That was Mark Wahlberg himself, everyone.
Chris: Thank you, Mark. I’m a little scared, but encouraged.
Mike: He was really excited to share that. I did get that message at 3:30 a.m.
Chris: So he’s very, very awake. He must have just woken up.
Mike: I don’t know if he ever sleeps. But yeah, thank you, Mark, for that encouragement. Would you kind of agree with the way he’s teed off this subject matter? Is that kind of how we’re talking about things today?
Chris: I think Mark came in a little bit aggressive there. Strong. But no, I think we tend to try to take more of a reasonable, calm approach here. We try to, at least.
Mike: Well, Wahlberg, if you’re listening, apparently to Chris you were unreasonable.
Chris: Unreasonable and aggressive. Calm down.
Mike: We know Mike Tyson. We’ll get him soon, probably. I think he’s actually going to give us a call back before his fight. So, okay.
Chris: All right. Childish things. Putting away childish things. This is one that’s always caused me a little bit of pause, because I was like, what are childish things? What qualifies, and what are we to put away? And then why are we to put them away? And what’s wrong with being a child? And then I get, you know, kind of prideful there, and I don’t want to put away anything I don’t understand. So help me understand it.
Mike: Yeah.
Chris: But in this case, I do have at least a story of when I did put away childish things. I was probably about 11.
Mike: A year ago?
Chris: No, 11.
Mike: Okay, sorry.
Chris: No, we’re going back to 11. 11 going on 12. I’m playing with my mixture, a combo of Star Wars figures and G.I. Joes, and just having a good time.
Mike: Ninja Turtles?
Chris: No. This is our age difference right here.
Mike: Okay, fine. Play with your little Batman. Did you ever have Batman things?
Chris: I had Batman things. I had Marvel things. But mostly G.I. Joes and Star Wars figures.
Mike: Army men?
Chris: Army men.
Mike: I had some Star Wars stuff.
Chris: You had some stuff. Please continue. You had childish things.
Mike: Okay. My apologies.
Chris: But I do remember that when I had moved to Texas, I was wanting to be friends with these guys that seemed to be pretty cool. They had jean jackets, they had Guess watches… or they had, no, Swatch watches.
Mike: Swatch watches.
Chris: Yeah. That’s the old age happening.
Mike: AARP.
Chris: Thank you. Thank you. And so I was hoping to hang out with them, and I remember they came to my apartment to ask me to go hang out with them. And as soon as I saw them walking up to the door, those Star Wars figures and those G.I. Joes went in a box, and they didn’t come out again.
Mike: Oh, man. So that was it for you.
Chris: That was it for me. That was putting away childish things. They were uncool at the time, and I feel like I grew up a little bit that day. And that’s just my mental picture there of what it means to do so. But that’s not really what we’re talking about. We’re not talking about putting away toys. And certainly if you’re into Star Wars figures and things like that, you’re probably playing with your kids, right?
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. That’s what you’re going to say. Let’s hope that’s what you’re doing.
Chris: If you have some Star Wars figures, we’ll dedicate an episode toward that. We’re not saying that’s terrible in itself.
Mike: Yeah, not in itself. But let’s keep going.
Chris: Let’s save that. We’ll save that subject for another time.
Mike: You know, you’re making me think: when did I put away…? I know we’re not specifically talking about getting rid of childish things, but now you’re making me think of an example. I played a lot of video games when I was little. I played a lot of video games against my brother, or we’d go play outside, go play baseball. I don’t think I was ever really embarrassed, like, “I need to put these away,” until girls came around. So I was a little bit older. And then when girls started to come around, it was like, okay, I don’t want a girl to come in and I’m ignoring her and playing a video game on the floor.
Chris: So it didn’t have to do with her being a girl and playing a video game?
Mike: No, it was just, for some reason, I started thinking, I don’t know, maybe this might be a little too childish. Maybe I need to put this up. I think that was the first time I started thinking that way. You know, that was a couple of years ago, after I got married. So I finally put that away in my over-30s. So hopefully people can sense the sarcasm there. But I realized that was not working well. So my apologies. You can’t hit them all.
Chris: Thank you.
Mike: You didn’t say anything. Thanks for just doing that. Sometimes it’s reps. Humor is sometimes just a matter of reps. Get back on the horse, Mike. 30 times, 29 are terrible, and one will come through. So yeah. All right.
Chris: That was pretty solid.
Mike: Back to you, Chris. I’m not talking for five minutes. Well, I was just wondering about what childish things look like today, just in our older age. We’re certainly covering a lot of ages out there. We know folks who are in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and above, and so it could look different. But what would you say are things that would qualify as childish things?
Chris: See, these are going to be hot takes, because depending on what we say right here, there are going to be guys… So we’re talking about what’s childish, that a grown man, or woman, but a grown-up, maybe shouldn’t spend too much time on. Is that kind of what you’re asking? And I’m wondering, really, are they things that you can hold and feel and taste and touch, or are they attitudes? Or maybe both?
Mike: I mean, the attitude would drive doing the thing, I guess. Okay. What comes to mind for me… so you’re putting me on the spot, because I did not prep this. I’m envisioning the grown-up guy kind of laying around on the couch. Definitely playing video games. Doesn’t want to work. Doesn’t want to hold a job. Kind of wants to mooch off of maybe his parents or girlfriend. He’s skipping the crunchy Cheetos. He’s too lazy, so he wants the puffy Cheeto that just disintegrates in his mouth, right? Too lazy. Come on, guy, grow up. We can get some crunch in there. No, I definitely, that kind of guy comes to mind. Someone who’s kind of drifting, and just doing what they want to do, and just abdicating responsibility. Oh, this is hard for me to think of some more specifics. What comes to mind for you?
Chris: Well, I know the same kind of picture comes to mind, and that tends to be the caricature, right, of a person that is childish: living in the basement, or, you know, we don’t have basements around here in Texas, but in the spare room, whatever. That just refuses to grow up. Doesn’t want any responsibility.
Mike: Yeah.
Chris: I think it’s more subtle. It’s maybe an attitude, or it’s an activity where it just still has a hold of you, and prevents you from doing the best, or from even discovering or trying to find out what is the best for you.
Mike: And so almost like you’re settling. Like maybe you’re like, “You know what? I don’t want to rock the boat in my life. I just kind of want to do what makes me happier. What’s easy.” Maybe it’s like taking the path of least resistance all the time. Because, I mean, life is hard. But I guess you can kind of fake yourself out by going down a path of, “Yeah, I’m in the basement. I don’t want to rock the boat. I don’t need to have bills, responsibilities. I’m just going to kind of live and…”
Chris: Yeah. Be a child.
Mike: The child doesn’t have to worry.
Chris: Right. I’ve heard John Piper describe it this way: you could have a parent with their child at a bank, and that child’s in the stroller, and they’re napping, while everybody else around them is concerned about their finances. And the child is there in the stroller. They’re sleeping. They are 100% content. They know that mom or dad, whoever’s pushing that stroller, has it under control.
Mike: Yeah, that’s a good analogy.
Chris: And I think that’s a great place to be when you are younger, when you’re a child. That’s exactly the position we should be in, right? It’s as we get older and we’re still depending on our mom, our dad, our guardian, others to do things for us, to where we don’t grow up, or we’re not prompted to grow up, where our attitude is, “Well, if it’s done for me, then I don’t have to do it, and I can think about these other things.” And sometimes those other things are the easiest path. It’s the path of least resistance. And it sometimes does come in the form of entertainment.
Mike: Well, someone may hear that… So let me ask you a question. Someone may hear what you just said about the bank and go, “Okay, so does that mean growing up is not being content or peaceful? Like I should be worrying about my finances?” You know what I mean?
Chris: That’s a good question. Yeah. And I’m not saying that we should look at it as, “The marker of you being grown up is the fact that you have more worries or concerns.”
Mike: So what would it mean to grow up, then? What would be a good…?
Chris: Embracing responsibility. Actually seeing the joy and the value that you can get from being responsible for what God has given you to be responsible for.
Mike: Like responsibility actually being a positive thing.
Chris: A positive thing.
Mike: Not a downer. Not all the negative conversations that come when people talk about responsibility.
Chris: There’s actually a redeemable, positive quality to that. And you’ve seen that across social media, or just in our culture here today. It’s, you know, “adulting.” And that makes people upset or sad…
Mike: Definitely in the negative. “I’ve got to go do adulting today.”
Chris: Oh yeah.
Mike: It kind of sounded like Seinfeld.
Chris: That was a little bit. “Well, what’s the deal? What’s the deal with adulting?”
Mike: But no, you’re right. It’s funny you said it’s talked about in the negative. People don’t say “adulting” in the godly, God-glorifying, redeemable, positive way, like fulfillment in adulting and having responsibilities. It’s just, “Oh, I have to go be an adult today,” kind of thing.
Chris: And I think as Christians, that’s the progression path, as we’re to grow toward spiritual maturity.
Mike: Yeah.
Chris: And if we are 40, to knocking on the door of your AARP card, and we’re still shunning responsibility and saying, “No, that’s not for me”…
Mike: Again with the Seinfeld voice. Yeah, that’s good.
Chris: …then there’s something going on there. Someone’s not calibrated, right?
Mike: So, Scripture comes to mind for me: 1 Corinthians 13:11. It probably comes to mind for you too. Well, maybe for all of us. So Paul says, “When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.” What do you think he’s talking about there?
Chris: I think he’s talking about a progression that we’re to take. That there’s a certain time and place for everything. And as you become a man, then the attitudes and behaviors that you had as a 12-year-old aren’t going to fly very well in your adulthood. In fact, it’s going to cause a lot of problems for you. And you’ll probably run across others who are also not spiritually mature, or don’t have any spirituality to them at all. And when those two things cross paths, that can cause a lot of conflict. Markers of that, you know, lack of maturity: usually we’re self-centered. We’re impulsive. And I’m just keeping it to the guys here. Lack of consideration for others. You know, “My time is my time. My tee time is my tee time. Sunday’s my fun day. My man cave is my man cave. I’m going to do what I want, because I’ve earned it. I’ve had a stressful week at work, and this weekend, we’re going to just…”
Mike: We’re probably making a lot of enemies of men right now. No, you’re right. No, I agree. I think it’s not that the man cave or the long day in and of itself is bad.
Chris: No, there’s nothing wrong with that. You’ve had a long day. There are some great man caves out there too.
Mike: There are some great man caves. Sit back and have your Topo Chico and do whatever.
Chris: Invite Mike and I over.
Mike: Yeah. There is a place that’s okay. Even if you play a video game, you go play some Madden, whatever. Okay, there’s a place. But we’re not talking about the one-off time, or to celebrate. We’re talking about when someone’s defaulting to that, right? That’s the go-to, or the escape.
Chris: That’s the goal.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Like you’re working hard for the weekend. You’re living for the weekend.
Chris: (singing) Everybody’s working for the weekend…
Mike: I knew you were going to do that. Yeah. So no, you’re right. It’s like when that’s the goal, or when life gets hard, which it will at some point for all of us, I go to escape. I go deal with my issues by going to one of those things, versus kind of facing the responsibility head on. I’m choosing to kind of pass it off, right? We’re talking more about examples kind of like that?
Chris: I think that covers quite a bit of the examples there: what it looks like today, and what many guys, and what we, are prone to, and what we want without knowing otherwise.
Mike: Yep. Do you think sometimes that’s also a lack of fatherhood? Like fathers modeling that for a future son? I mean, we’re talking guys specifically, but this applies across the board. Do you think it’s a lack of having that modeled from the parents, for a lot of people?
Chris: Yeah. In a way, I think if we have it modeled in a good, positive way, and see that from our fathers, then I think that’s going to carry over and help us see the value in it. I also think it maybe does stem from rebellion, from what you might have seen from your father, if they were really hard on you and said, “Okay, well, do this and do that, and don’t ever have any free time,” or they locked you up in a schedule that’s full of sports, and that’s not your career at this point. You might have some rebellion there that you might not even be aware of: “Okay, I’m going to use my time the way that I want to use my time.”
Mike: Yeah, like almost like a dad being a workaholic or something, and then you’re like, “You know what? I’m not even going to work,” or, “I’m not going to apply myself to employment,” or something like that.
Chris: Okay, I see what you’re saying.
Mike: “I’m not going to be like you, old man.”
Chris: Yeah, yeah. Sticking it to the man kind of thing.
Mike: Which is basically acting like a child, throwing a fit at the parent. But we’ve all been there. It’s nothing that you and I haven’t done. I mean, I’ve probably been accused every now and then, maybe on a weekly basis, of sometimes acting like a child, or being a little immature sometimes. Certainly. And I don’t wake up thinking I’m going to do that, but I probably will default to some level of humor, or just kind of, “This is for me.” So in my head, sometimes acting like an idiot (which sometimes “idiot” is a hard word for some people, I recognize that), but probably when I just don’t want to have to be a guy, when I don’t want to adult. You tend to sometimes send out the boy ahead of the man, kind of play around or test the waters. It’s hard to strive for that maturity and die to yourself day after day. I mean, obviously it comes really easy for you. I know this is like really simple…
Chris: Oh, I know. It’s just remedial right now for me. We’re just going through the motions here. No, no, it’s something that I still face today. In fact, we talked last episode about your Dallas Stars beating my Colorado…
Mike: Yeah, yeah. I like how you whispered that.
Chris: I do remember, and again, this is going to… well, we already dated me by you mentioning the A-A-R-P-C.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. The words are hard.
Chris: The words are harder when you’re older. It’s okay. But back in ’99, when the Dallas…
Mike: “Back in my day.”
Chris: …when they won their first Stanley Cup, they beat my Colorado Avalanche then.
Mike: Yeah. Well, and was bread a nickel during that time?
Chris: Was Brett a nickel?
Mike: Bread. Was bread a nickel?
Chris: Oh, you’re thinking… because the guy who won…
Mike: You know, back when you said “back in my day,” everyone’s like, “You know, the paper was ten cents, and get off my lawn, and bread was a nickel.”
Chris: I’m going to think of Brett Hull. Okay. But anyway, they beat the Colorado Avalanche, and I remember back then thinking, “This is the worst thing ever. I can’t believe it.” We had a chance to win a Stanley Cup, and I took it hard. I was upset that they lost two Game 7s two years in a row. And so, as they lost again this time around, it’s funny to look back and think about my attitude back then toward it, and how childish it was, and how childish it still is. But I was able to at least have a comparison there.
Mike: Like you can look back and go, okay, was it the end of my life?
Chris: They lost a game. And they really don’t know me, and they don’t care about me.
Mike: Hey, I get it. The Rangers won last year. I was crying. My brother and I, literal tears, crying. It was amazing. And all of us were like, “That’s awesome.” It is also a game at the end of the day.
Chris: It is a game.
Mike: It’s remembering perspective, that these things are great, or Madden was great, or this TV show was awesome. It was creative, it was entertaining. It’s also just entertainment.
Chris: And I think you hit on something there too: usually those kinds of memories when we’re kids, be it sports, or our team winning, or playing a video game, or something that we really enjoyed, those are good memories. We want to go back to those. Well, maybe that’s part of the reason why we continue to do that as men. It’s because we’re searching to find something that made us feel good back then.
Mike: I think so. I 100% think we attach. You hear a good song, or a sports team. I totally think there’s a deeper meaning. I don’t think we just wake up and go, “I’m this guy for this team forever.” There’s a reason we’ve kind of hitched our wagon, so to speak, to it. So you’re right. It’s going to be a deep topic, because it’s going to be so different for everyone. Maybe it is a memory. Maybe it’s a really loving memory. I have great memories of my dad and me and my brother at the ballpark, at old Arlington Stadium, stomping your feet on these metal bleachers as you’re simultaneously burning in the sun, and then going to The Ballpark in Arlington. We lived up there for a couple of years. We were there all the time. And so I could see people attaching memories, and absolutely striving to find some kind of fulfillment through these things that are fine in and of themselves. But I think when they become more than they should, the Bible would call those idols. Which is, you know, harsh wording. But yeah, you go to your childish ways, and everything else is a priority over the Lord. That would be an idol. So I think we’re looking for fulfillment at the end of the day. Satisfaction.
Chris: Yeah, satisfaction. And there’s nothing wrong with those things in themselves. But that’s just sports. There are other things, right? We can certainly get distracted by other things that just tend to mark the fact that we haven’t really embraced wanting to be mature, and wanting to have more responsibility. And if we don’t know the value of responsibility, then of course we’re just going to flounder there. We’re going to stay there for a while, until something hopefully wakes us up out of that, or till the Lord gets ahold of us.
Mike: Yeah. Well, you’re a mature guy, if I may say.
Chris: Gosh.
Mike: I didn’t say all the time. Don’t get too excited. But we’re talking about embracing maturity and finding fulfillment in how God’s created us to be as adults, man or woman, and this topic of being a man, but in a way, boyish things. How have you found ways to kind of mature? Did you just wake up overnight and go, “All right, I’m AARP-eligible now, so I’d better be mature, and put real shoes on, not just flip-flops every day”?
Chris: That’s exactly… as I’m looking at my toes.
Mike: I wish. We don’t have our cameras on quite yet, but people will. How have you learned, I guess, to even mature at all? How does that work?
Chris: Well, if it is working, I would say that it’s being part of community. Being something part of… that turning-50, old-age thing is really hurting.
Mike: Old age is really hurting.
Chris: Being in community is something that we’re designed for. And being around other men, it’s going to be very difficult to stay self-centered and selfish within that group and not see the disparity there, if you really are with men who are looking to grow and look like mature men. Not just other men, but actually mature, wiser men, looking to grow in their relationship with the Lord, looking at strengthening their families, looking at strengthening their own spiritual walk. Then you’re going to have a good example there of how you fit into the bigger picture.
Mike: Hmm. You know, one of the things I think my dad taught us was working hard. He modeled that for us after my parents got divorced. You know, he had to take two boys on during, like, formative years, which, looking back, is like, man, how did he…? He definitely wanted to escape multiple times. But he modeled a really strong work ethic with us. And so I’ve been working for a long time. I had to pay my own way since I was, I don’t know, 15. Just paying my own way, all that good stuff. I feel like I started recognizing in my low 20s that I would work a 12-hour day and pay my bills. And probably right before becoming a believer, there was something I was sensing within me that was like, “This is good. This stewardship, this responsibility thing.” Obviously we say “adulting” now, like you said. There was something hardwired in me, if I had to be really honest, that was like, “This is the right thing to do.” And I feel like I’ve learned more now that we’re created for that. I mean, Adam and Eve were working in the garden before sin. They were already working. Working is godly. It’s good.
Chris: There were no puffy Cheetos in the garden.
Mike: There were no puffy Cheetos. They were crunching. They were actually stepping up and crunching the Cheetos. There’s something about it: even if you’re exhausted at the end of the day, it’s a good exhaustion. And we’re talking about sports… I mean, it’s not all about sports, but let’s just say you played your heart out at a game and you laid it out on the field. There’s something really satisfying, even though, yeah, you might practically be exhausted. But it’s like, “Good. I really worked hard,” right? “And strived to love my wife well, to serve my kids.” To drive home after a 12-hour day and prepare yourself for what some people call a second-shift mentality. And you might go to bed last, or your head finally hits the pillow, and there’s something where you’re like, “I’m going to sleep really good.”
Chris: Your sleep ought to be really good.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. Right. And then versus what could be: “I’m ignoring all my responsibilities. I’m eating the puffy Cheetos, or playing the video games, and just not really striving to do anything.” I don’t think that person is sleeping good at night.
Chris: They’re not connecting with their family either, I would say, in most of those cases. If it’s just about, “What can I get to that’s going to allow me to medicate in a way,” to kind of block things out, then yeah, you’re not communicating.
Mike: I think if we were to be really, really gut-level honest with ourselves… sometimes guys, I don’t think we’ll admit this… when we do that, we’re totally not satisfied. We know we’re not satisfied, but we don’t necessarily see the way out, or it’s just so appealing to keep things so-called easy. It’s just a facade the enemy puts in front of us. But we know there’s something in us that knows, “I wasn’t created for that. I’m not finding satisfaction in that.” I know we know that deep down. You could say that about any sin, in that case.
Chris: Yeah. We’ll cover more as we go along here on this podcast. But yeah, the emptiness that comes along with not playing your role. Not being within the design that God has for you. And also the lack of purpose behind it. You know, we’re made for a purpose.
Mike: It seems appealing at first, like, “Yeah.” You’re attracted to the sin, because you’re like, “Oh, this will make my life better.”
Chris: Yeah. Just like that apple in the garden, right?
Mike: Yes. And then the second you bite into it, it’s like, “Oh no.” That was the worst. So what would be an encouragement? How do we send men and women out on, “Okay, it’s worth it”?
Chris: Sure. It’s not going to help you to stay in an immature, childish state. And it sounds cliche, and it is: no man is an island. Not in God’s economy. And so surround yourself with men who are looking to grow in their Christlike faith, in their spiritual maturity, in their walk, who are also wanting to engage in community. Make sure you’re part of that. Don’t walk alone. A lone wolf does not stand very long on their own. And whatever’s being marketed toward us, usually with the action movies and the other things that we see, it’s the guy on his own, and that’s the thing that looks cool. He’s just got it all figured out. That’s been marketed to us since we were watching John Wayne movies with our grandfather, all the way up until now. It’s not that way. We need each other. We do. We need other men around us. We need guys who are willing to be honest with us, who are also willing to take some honesty back. It’s what we love about sports, really, whenever we play on teams too. That’s the reality playing out. We’re having to help each other out.
Mike: You’re picking each other up…
Chris: Or else the team fails and suffers. Right.
Mike: Yeah. You’re moving toward a common goal. You’re working together. And this would be spiritual growth, discipleship, trying to share the gospel, and trying to honestly grow to be a man. I mean, 1 Timothy 6, kind of 11 through 12-ish. He’s talking about the opposite of all these different sins we drift toward just naturally. “But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue…” So instead of going after the sins and the childish ways, pursue “righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith.” And it’s striking me: don’t dwell on the times you have been childish. You’re still going to make mistakes. You’re still going to play that game a little too long, or stay in that man cave a little too long. That’s kind of the rub, if you’re going to be honest and you’re really trying to press into the Lord. But don’t let the enemy have a field day with you and go, “See? You know what? You can’t grow up. Just stay. It’s easy. Continue being this kid.” Or, “You’re not good enough.” That’s a lie from the enemy, right? You can start to act like a man the way the Bible’s talking about this. I mean, you can start right now. Just you even listening to this, the fact you even turned it on, might even be an encouragement that there’s something in you that feels a drive to actually want to mature.
Chris: Yeah. And I’m thinking we could have a separate series on this, because there are so many games that we play as kids, and games that we play as adults when acting like children. We could really do a part two on this, because work is great, and we want to work hard, and you’ve talked about the value that you get out of a hard day’s work. And there’s also King of the Mountain. I believe there is an immaturity to many of us, where we’re trying to outdo our neighbors, trying to outdo our friends, and we’re playing King of the Mountain.
Mike: King of the Mountain, by the way, I’m too young to play that game. So that was back…
Chris: All I remember is there was a lot of carnage trying to get to the top.
Mike: Just trying to be king of a mountain.
Chris: Trying to be king of the mountain. That mountain could have been a dirt pile. It could have been a gravel pile, whatever it was. It could have been a pile of mattresses.
Mike: Whatever they had back in the day. Back when people were, you know, back 50-something years ago.
Chris: No, you’re right.
Mike: Yeah, keep going.
Chris: The comparison, yeah, that’s a whole other… There are really great things that we can take to the extreme, and it’s really just being childish in that too.
Mike: That’s good. So, last words as we kind of wrap up. What kind of final words would you have here?
Chris: Yeah, I would say, though you’re part of a community, and though you should be part of a group of men that are looking to grow together, make sure that you’re taking the time individually for self-reflection, for prayer, for getting into the Word. That’s just going to lead to better accountability with those other guys, because you’re being honest with yourself, you’re being honest with your God, you’re spending that time. And then you can actually provide more benefit to the group, because you’re talking about the truth when you’re together, and you’re immersed in that truth, and you’re able to share what God has to say about it, and not just opinion.
Mike: Yeah. And it’s actually worth it, and good, and godly to grow up and have responsibilities. That’s great. You know, AARP, another thing that’s worth it, is the American Association of Retired Persons.
Chris: Okay.
Mike: And there’s things where you can save more on your everyday. This is from the World Wide Web: “once-in-a-lifetime discounts,” restaurants, shopping, gas, travel, important issues like Social Security, Medicare and prescription prices, quality auto, life, dental, vision and other insurance products from top companies. So I mean, I feel like, one, I’m sure you’re feeling strong. Feeling strong, because you, sir, are the new member of the AARP, soon to be coming your way.
Chris: All I had to do was grow older, put away childish things, and get myself a new AARP membership.
Mike: There we go.
Outro: Thanks so much for joining us. Please consider rating and reviewing our podcast and hitting subscribe on whichever platform you prefer. Remember to keep moving forward, because we’re not quite there.
