How Do We Grow In Maturity And Why It Matters
The guys explore the nuances of maturity, from spiritual growth to everyday responsibilities, and how self-awareness and intentionality can lead to a more fulfilled and purposeful life.
Leave us a voicemail online and send us your experience or thoughts to info@notquitethereshow.com
Visit nqtshow.com and visit here to see all available platforms this podcast is now available on!
How do we grow in maturity, and why does it matter? Mike Mobley and Chris Howard say maturity isn’t about age, clothes or being serious all the time. It’s about a trajectory: not repeating the mistakes of your past, embracing responsibility instead of escaping it, having real conversations about how you’re doing with God, and noticing the people around you. They talk about why immaturity feels comfortable, why the mature path is more fulfilling, how your spouse and kids act as mirrors, and why it’s never too late to take one small step. Below: the key takeaways, the Scripture discussed, and the full episode transcript.
Is Maturity About Age?
Getting older brings some freedom. Mike and Chris laugh about leaving typos uncorrected, dodging salespeople, and wearing shirts with holes because they care less about others’ approval. But does maturity mean dressing a certain way at 50, or knowing the trends? Not really. Chris asks a better question: when you’re with your friends, are you only ever talking about Tommy Boy? Maturity, whether in faith or as a human being, is whatever is leading to wisdom in our roles as sons of God, husbands and fathers.
Not Repeating the Mistakes of Your Past
Mike’s first litmus test is simple: am I repeating the same stupid, embarrassing or intentional wrongs I used to? His second is looking to the Bible, which seems to call for moving more slowly, being more patient, and learning that people aren’t always what we assume. Chris adds that immaturity can feel comfortable. Video games and old movies with friends can be fun, but if you keep going back to them as an escape, you have to ask what you’re escaping from.
Embracing Responsibility
As we get older, God seems to wire life so our responsibilities naturally increase: bills, work, and caring for what He has given us. Mike says there are plenty of “boys” walking around at 20, 40 or 70 who live like they’re 15, and Chris notes that many marriages can speak to the damage that attitude causes. We’re called to crave solid food and grow, which brings us closer to God, even though we drift toward comfort. Mike says he feels more fulfilled, and sleeps better, after a long day of embracing responsibility than after a day on the couch.
Real Conversations and Seeing People
Every few years, Mike says, there’s a new tier of maturity you either stretch toward or don’t. Are you and your friends talking about the same things you did five years ago? Chris measures progress by how often he has real spiritual conversations about how someone is actually doing with the Lord. Even if a friend isn’t ready to go there, you become the person they know they can talk to. Mike admits that in tunnel-vision, get-it-done mode, he misses the people around him, and that is its own kind of immaturity.
Your Family Is a Mirror
Our families usually see our immaturity first. Chris says selfishness shows quickly when he’s not giving his wife time and attention, and kids will ask, “Dad, why’d you say that?” Mike tells the story of the one time he yelled a cuss word when a police car pulled up behind him on the highway (it passed him), and his kids still remind him every week. There is grace. We won’t arrive, which is the whole point of Not Quite There. But it helps to stop and plot the trajectory: is it going up and to the right?
It’s Never Too Late to Take One Small Step
Maturity doesn’t mean trading in your personality or sense of humor; God uses those too. Ask God to reveal whether you’re growing, and ask your friends, spouse and kids, ready for any answer. Deep down, we know our gaps, and no one can hand us a magic pill. Mike says life really is better on the path to maturity, while staying immature leads to lost relationships, bitterness and a callous heart. You may not have 30 more years, but you have today: one foot in front of the other.
Scriptures From This Episode
Hebrews 5:14 (“But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.”)
Also referenced: our roles as sons of God, husbands and fathers; obedience and submission to God; and God’s grace when we fall short.
Go deeper: Am I Growing In God? · 3 Ways of Growing in Christ · Are You A Grown Up Man Child? · Why So Many Men Are Bored And Drifting · Being Comfortable With The Uncomfortable · Scripture on Wisdom · 5 Ways for Men to Lead Their Family
Full Transcript, Not Quite There, Episode 76: How Do We Grow In Maturity And Why It Matters
Mike: Maturity is a process. Enjoy the journey.
Chris: But when you’re together with the friends, are you talking about Tommy Boy, or are you talking about investments?
Mike: Your spectrum is Tommy Boy? So, one of the ways you know that you’re old: for me, it’s when I send a text and it’s completely spelled wrong because I dictated it, and you see it and you’re like, you know what? I’m not even going to correct it. I’m just going to let that baby go.
Chris: Yeah. I’m like, I could maybe say something funny back, or something smart-alecky…
Mike: But you’re like, I don’t even have the time.
Chris: I have no energy, no time.
Mike: Same thing when you’re walking out of a grocery store and someone’s like, “Hey, can I talk to you about…” Like, you know what? Let me just save us both time. I promise you I’m not interested.
Chris: Do you go that far? Because sometimes I just look down at my watch, which I’m not wearing, and I look up at them and shake my head and point at the watch that isn’t there, and I just keep going.
Mike: I have walked by with my phone to my ear, and I am not on a phone call. Getting older, though. It’s fantastic. Because you just get your confidence. You don’t care.
Chris: Yeah, you definitely don’t care as much about some things, right?
Mike: Well, hopefully you’re not living for the approval of others. We’re all guilty of it, and sure, if you’re older, you can still slide into it. But I do feel like not living for the approval of others comes a little more naturally than when I was younger. Twenty years ago, I was totally worried about people. What am I wearing? How am I going to look? Now I don’t care.
Chris: And now that’s kind of the attitude, right? They’d just better get used to it.
Mike: I mean, there are holes in my shirt. I think there’s a hole in my armpit. There might be deodorant. Wait. Oh, I’m wearing the shirt with no holes today. I dressed up. Never mind. Do you have a favorite shirt in your closet that has a whole bunch of holes in it?
Chris: There are some getting close, with some snags that could become holes pretty quickly, but nothing that I know of.
Mike: Does your wife appreciate the shirts, or does she want you to throw them away?
Chris: I think she would prefer a whole new wardrobe. Unless it’s something that she’s picked out for me.
Mike: I think you’re looking great. You’re wearing a polo and jeans.
Chris: This is something that she picked out for me.
Mike: Oh, that’s why you’re looking great.
Chris: Yeah. It has her approval.
Mike: You’re wearing shoes too. Did she pick out your shoes?
Chris: You know, I actually picked these out.
Mike: Great job. We’re proud of you. Wrong sound effect. Sorry about that. We’re celebrating that. We’re definitely celebrating being back in the saddle.
Chris: As I’m getting more mature spiritually, I’m trying to ask questions of other people, not just take the mic and run with it and talk all about me. So what about your wardrobe? Are you 100 percent approved?
Mike: Good segue on maturing spiritually. “So what about my wardrobe?” This is an episode in itself. Two thoughts. One, I do not want to think about what I have to wear, so it’s just T-shirt and shorts or T-shirt and jeans all the time. And Joelle, well, she thinks about what I’m wearing.
Chris: Is she usually pro the shirt that you’re wearing?
Mike: I think she’s kind of like, you know what? He’s going to wear what he wants to wear. I have some shirts that have a lot of holes in them, and she’s like, “You can’t wear that one.” And I want to wear that one. But it’s not like Joelle dresses me.
Chris: Okay. That would be weird.
Mike: Okay, you say that, but I think you and I both know there are men out there whose wives lay out their clothes.
Chris: Do you think there are some men out there who just put their arms up?
Mike: I do know some whose wives lay out their clothes on a daily basis. Now hold on, just to be safe. This is not financial advice. Just to be safe for the audience. I don’t roll that way. I’m not going to say it’s weird for all mankind if that’s the case, but it’s not just one guy. I know a good handful of guys who don’t go out the door unless their wife is like, “Yeah, that’s good.”
Chris: Like, “John, I’m laying out Tuesday for you.”
Mike: John is an ethereal John.
Chris: Yeah. Not an actual John.
Mike: You don’t know any other guys like that?
Chris: I don’t.
Mike: It’s weird to me. I think it’s a little strange. But hey, if that works for someone’s marriage…
Chris: We have different friends, I guess. I’m wondering if any of the friends we have in common are John.
Mike: Well, then you should know those guys.
Chris: Well, that makes sense then.
Mike: So how in the world are we talking about being spiritually mature? Because you said you’re trying to grow in your spiritual maturity by asking me questions, and it was about clothes.
Chris: I do think it kind of ties back to clothes, because sometimes I wonder about the way I’m dressing. Is that the right kind of dress for a man of my age? Is there a certain look…
Mike: When you’re 90, how should you dress?
Chris: Yeah. A man of a certain age and distinction, I guess. Do they need to look a certain way? And I know we’re going to talk more about the heart and the things that really matter here. But I think that’s at least a good litmus test.
Mike: So kind of like, you’re 50 years old. Should a 50-year-old be wearing skinny jeans…
Chris: And a cut-off T-shirt. Instead of the hole in there, you just cut off the bottom of it.
Mike: I’m the wrong guy to reference what’s hip and trendy or young, because I don’t know.
Chris: Okay, well, that’s at least a good sign: here I am, a man of a certain age, and I’m not really up on the trends.
Mike: Honestly, no one young is going to appreciate what I’m about to say, but hasn’t the nineties kind of been rehashed right now?
Chris: It seems like it.
Mike: But if you say that, any young person will be like, “Get out of here. It’s our fashion.”
Chris: It’s like the 2000s now.
Mike: We’re talking JNCO jeans, nineties clothing, a little bit of bagginess. Don’t act like you’re making a new fashion. Come on. We were there.
Chris: We saw it.
Mike: So how does that tie in? Should you be at a certain level of maturity by a certain age? How are you tying that in?
Chris: Like, what should we be talking about? What topics are okay to talk about at this age? We cover a lot of material here, and I’d say we’re probably on the line on quite a few topics that might not always be the most mature. So bear with us, people.
Mike: That’s true. Maturity is a process. Enjoy the journey.
Chris: But when you’re together with the friends, are you talking about Tommy Boy, or are you talking about investments and things like that?
Mike: Your spectrum is Tommy Boy?
Chris: I’m just saying.
Mike: You’re almost saying, how do you know if you’re mature? Is that kind of what you’re getting at?
Chris: How do you know that your friends are mature?
Mike: Man, that’s a good question for anyone to wrestle with, regardless of their age. Are you maturing now? I guess you’re saying maturing in your faith, maturing as a human, whatever.
Chris: Whatever’s leading to wisdom. We certainly have responsibilities and roles here. First of all, son of God. Husband, father.
Mike: Sure. That’s a good question.
Chris: I need a good answer, Mike.
Mike: I feel like the answer is going to be pretty interesting and different for everyone.
Chris: What is it for you, then? Let’s start with you.
Mike: Well, I’ve got to think about that. It makes me think of wisdom. I can think back over my life, and it’s not like I’m 90 like some people, but I can already think back and go, okay, I’ve done a lot of stupid things in my past, a lot of embarrassing things, things I’m not proud of. Some of it is just growing up, being immature, not knowing what maturity is and stumbling around figuring it out. Some things are more intentional: you know it’s the wrong thing to do, but you’re going to do it anyway. So part of me looks back and goes, okay, am I repeating the same things I used to do? That’s one litmus test. Another is that I’m looking to the Bible. I didn’t always look to the Bible, but I do today. And there seems to be something about moving a little slower, not just because you’re old, but being more patient. You gain some life experience over time. You realize lots of things are not what you assume, and lots of people aren’t a certain way based on your assumptions. You learn there’s a lot more there. I’m thinking in real time, because it’s good. We never want to have a podcast that is scripted. That’s fake. It’s almost like joining us for a cup of coffee.
Chris: We’re just talking here.
Mike: I’m curious what your first thoughts are. My first thought is not repeating a lot of the mistakes of my past. That’s at least one of the grids I think through.
Chris: Yeah. That shows growth, right? Or at least I’m not repeating something that had a negative effect.
Mike: Yes. If I’m just repeating it, what is that?
Chris: And on the other side of that, immaturity can feel comfortable. It can feel good. Say the guys are getting together, going off for a weekend, whether it’s a men’s retreat or just getting together to hang out. If you’re playing video games and watching old movies that made us laugh back then, that can be fun. And you like it because it reminds you of maybe a simpler time, a time of less responsibility. But if you stay there, and you’re playing video games as an adult all the time, unless you’re a professional video gamer, because let’s show respect there…
Mike: My argument’s breaking down. Professional video gamers.
Chris: But if you’re finding comfort in those things and you need to go back to them all the time, whether with your group of friends or on your own, then I don’t see where the growth is.
Mike: That’s an interesting dynamic. So you’re almost saying it’s about the motivation, if it’s to deny where you’re currently at or where you’re heading. Because is playing a video game by itself immature? I think it’d be hard to say that by itself is immature.
Chris: Yeah.
Mike: But to your point, if you’re going back to it, especially as an escape, I guess that’s what you’re saying. Or are you living in the past? What are you even escaping from? I do think there’s something about getting older. It sure seems like the way God’s wired things, whether someone’s a believer or not, is that your responsibilities naturally increase as you get older. You have to pay your bills. You have to take care of what God’s given you. Most of the time you have to work. Maybe you get a paycheck, maybe you don’t, but you have responsibilities, and no one else is going to do them for you as you get older, like maybe happened when you were a child. So do you hide from that and run the other way, or do you embrace it?
Chris: I’m sure there are a lot of marriages out there that can speak to the detrimental effect of that kind of attitude toward responsibility.
Mike: Oh yeah. And I think we as guys can call out other guys. There are a lot of boys walking around who are 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 years old, and they are living like they’re 15 and not embracing responsibility.
Chris: Maybe they stopped drawing their map at a younger age, and they’re constantly trying to get back there.
Mike: So what’s the value in maturing, then? Why is that even a good thing to aspire to?
Chris: I think we’re called to it, number one. If you think of obedience or submission to God, and I’ll speak for me as a Christian, we’re called to crave more solid food, and the obedience there is supposed to help bring about wisdom as well. So we’re supposed to want that. We’re supposed to want to grow. I think that brings us closer to God. When we’re growing in maturity, we’re able to understand and process the world a little more through that lens, which requires wisdom and maturity. So I think there’s value in that.
Mike: Do you always want to do it?
Chris: Not necessarily. We’re prone to comfort, so we want to find the thing that’s going to be easy, the thing we know we don’t have to battle through or fight through to have a different thought on. I think we want comfortable people and situations around us.
Mike: Kind of like the path of least resistance. We drift toward that. I can see that. I kind of feel a natural pull on most days: either step up and embrace my responsibility, or have a real conversation with someone that’s not just surface-level, something a little uncomfortable that stretches you, or on any given day, just choose the easy. “I’ll just coast today and not really lift a finger.” There’s that internal struggle. We joked about how nice it is getting older, because you can just yell at salespeople and say, “Get off my lawn.” But in all seriousness, I feel more fulfilled when I do embrace maturity. I don’t know if you feel this way. When I put in a 12-hour day and I come home and still have things to do for the family or the house, sometimes on the most exhausting days, I sleep the best that night. When my head hits the pillow, there’s a fulfillment factor. Likewise, on other days, if it was a day off and there was no one around, and it was eight hours of lying on the couch eating a block of cheese, I feel worse. Not just because of the cheese. There’s genuinely not that fulfillment there. I actually feel better when I embrace the mature path.
Chris: I think you’re on the other side of that now, where you’re like, okay, I know how that made me feel. I like the responsibility here. I like being able to be there for my wife and kids. I think there’s a certain part of us that gets filled in when we’re playing that role and playing it well.
Mike: It’s hard. Have you noticed that almost every couple of years, there seems to be a new tier, and you either stretch and go to that new tier of maturity, or you don’t? For example, you have a great group of guys around you, and five years later, same group of guys: are you talking about the exact same things you talked about five years ago, or are you progressing? Is it just, “Okay, this guy’s going to talk about this thing, I know how this conversation is going to go, and we’re just going to do this on repeat”? Or is there progress?
Chris: I’d say you have to make an extra effort to be more intentional, especially when that relationship feels comfortable and even fun. We have all these memories, things that are fun to talk about, things that made us laugh back in the day and make us laugh now. To go to that next level is a bit of a challenge.
Mike: How do you know when you’re progressing in your maturity?
Chris: I think when I’m having more spiritual conversations with people, when we’re actually getting down to, “How are you doing in your relationship with God?” Not to sound cliché, but those are the hardest things to talk about: how you’re actually doing in your relationship with the Lord, and whether that relationship is front and center.
Mike: Do you think that’s more difficult because it’s a real question? It’s not, “Hey, how are you doing?” “Good.”
Chris: “I’m reading my Bible.” That’s just not going to cut it.
Mike: Or “What have you been up to?” “I don’t know. Working this past week, and nothing else.” No. How are you actually doing? To the point that people are saying, “My marriage is struggling. Parenting is hard. My job stinks. Church, Jesus, I don’t even know if I care.” When you hear things like that, I guess that’s when you’re getting to the real meat of a conversation, versus just surface.
Chris: Look, some people are not going to be able to go there at that time. But at least you’re setting up for later, so they know, “Hey, if I ever do come around to wanting to talk about this, maybe Mike or Chris would be the person to talk to.”
Mike: I have felt challenged in this last year or two. I’m experiencing a bit of a tension where I have responsibilities. There are a lot of things to get done. You have to get them done. There’s no question there. And I can sometimes get into this super-focused, tunnel-vision mode to get things done. But I know when I’m doing that, I’m missing people in the process. You know what I mean? You’re still interacting with people. You might even get past a pleasantry every now and then, but you’re not really stopping to take stock of someone in their actual life. Other times, I can tell I’m really looking. You pick up on little things that you come back and talk to them about, and they go, “You’re really taking an interest. You really see something.” So I’ve noticed the tension. I think I’m being immature in my tunnel vision. Even though I’m still getting things done, I’m lacking the maturity to really take stock of the human beings around me.
Chris: Yeah. And unfortunately, that usually includes family, right? If I’m 100 percent focused on what I have in front of me, then I’m not giving time and attention to my wife, and that immaturity can be spotted pretty quickly. The selfishness rears its head, and you’re sorry for that, and you try again next time. Our kids can sometimes call you out as well, especially if you say or do something and they go, “Dad, why’d you do that?” or “Why’d you say that?” That’s always fun, isn’t it?
Mike: So, funny story. This is going to sound so funny. I don’t really cuss. I’m not a cussing sailor. I’m not just walking around cussing. But there’s one time, four or five years ago, I’m getting on the highway with the whole family in the car, and this cop came out of nowhere, sped up right behind me and flipped on his lights. And for some reason… I’m not joking, it’s the one time I’ve yelled a cuss word out in the car. That one time. And my kids, to this day, on a weekly basis, are like, “Hey, remember that one time you said…” They don’t say it like that, but anyway, they call me out on it. You’re right. Your kids will call you out. They remember that stuff. Moral of the story, by the way: I wasn’t getting pulled over. It just looked like I was. He passed me at the last second. I was like, “Okay, here we go.” But I had a little moment there anyway. To that point, there’s grace, right? I can cuss, and I apologize, and we’ll move on. But the kids remember. They’ll call you out. We often show that immaturity, and also that maturity, to our family first. They’re right there.
Chris: So maybe when your head’s hitting the pillow that night, you’re thinking, “Why did I say that?” Or, “Gosh, I have some correction to make tomorrow.”
Mike: “Why would I have said that?” That’s a nice immature moment. I apologize, while we’re talking about immaturity.
Chris: So those are the mirrors looking back at us, right?
Mike: Yeah, totally. And even hearing you say that, it’s convicting me now. I just don’t always display it. But at the same time, there is grace. There are going to be times when we cuss, or tell a joke that misses, that’s just not funny, or say something inappropriate, or think something inappropriate. We’re not going to arrive. That’s the whole point of Not Quite There. It’s one step at a time. But I do think there’s something to be said for having a conversation like this and stopping and going, okay, wait a minute. Life is incremental steps, but let’s back up and plot it out on a whiteboard in front of our face. Is there at least a trajectory toward maturity at all? If we’re really honest, is it going up and to the right, or not so much?
Chris: Or is it just stagnating?
Mike: Or going down. There are plenty of people who get older and just get stuck in their ways: “I’m not going to change who I am. I’m not going to mature.”
Chris: “Don’t ask anything.”
Mike: “And everyone else can just deal with it.” I think that person’s on a trajectory toward immaturity. It’s really made me think, though: why do I want to be mature? I’ve seen fulfillment, a greater sense of purpose, all through glorifying the Lord. And I think I love people better: family, friends, neighbors, strangers. Real community, really seeing people where they’re at. That’s so much better than going through the day to day, week to week, “case of the Mondays,” blah, blah, blah. The drift. You know what I mean?
Chris: “I’m just going to do it this way because it’s Monday. I need to get through this day.”
Mike: That’s why they make movies like Office Space. It’s because it’s that common, and we can all relate to it, unfortunately. But do you really want to live that way for the rest of your time here? That seems pretty wasteful. Honestly, it’s kind of depressing. I don’t want to do that.
Chris: I’m with you. Let’s not do that.
Mike: You’ve got to love two guys talking about maturity while being immature in the middle of it.
Chris: Yeah. I don’t think we’re being asked to trade in our personality, or the things that make us laugh. I think God uses that and can use that as you’re maturing.
Mike: That’s a good word, because maturity doesn’t mean super serious…
Chris: Professional. Who’s going to want that?
Mike: I think that’s fake in the same vein. There are times to be serious, and there are times for professionalism. Sure. But it’s not about, “Are you an idiot or are you serious?” We can still laugh and whatnot. I do think a lot of it is, “Okay, God, help me see. Reveal to me if I’m growing in maturity.” Ask your friends, man. If you’re married, ask your spouse. If you have kids, ask your kids. That’s super hard and super humbling. Be ready for any answer. And if you don’t follow Jesus, still go ask people: “Do you see a change in me?” At the end of the day, if you’re thinking something inappropriate every two seconds, if you’re looking at inappropriate stuff, if you’re making those jokes, if you’re living in your past, if you’re shirking your responsibilities, I’m pretty sure “shirking” is the right word, I think if we’re really honest, we know. Maybe we won’t talk about it with someone. Maybe we’re too afraid. But I think deep down, we can be really honest and know whether we’re growing in maturity or not. I don’t know if I’m right about that. It’s a gut feeling. I think we know.
Chris: I think we know too. And I think we know the gaps. And I think it’s our responsibility to fill those gaps, because nobody else is going to be able to do it. Nobody’s going to give you a magic pill and say, “Okay, now you can mature.” It has to be time with the Lord. It has to be time with others in fellowship, asking those questions and being asked those questions too: “How are you doing? Are you growing in your relationship?” And then being honest about it.
Mike: And a takeaway from this conversation, for the last 29 minutes we’ve been talking about it: sometimes I think people go, “Okay, yes, Mike, Chris, cool. I’m supposed to be mature. I get it. I’ve known this my whole life. I just don’t want to,” or “I just don’t care.” Sometimes it sounds like a job, or a responsibility, like we’re supposed to do this as good human beings for society. But it’s better. It’s better to grow in maturity than not to. That’s one of my realizations over the last 20 years or so: life actually is better in so many practical ways, it’s hard to even list them all, when you’re heading in the direction of maturity. If you stay immature, you will not be happy with yourself in the end, and you will lose real, meaningful relationships around you. And honestly, in your immaturity, it’s not all fun and games. You’re probably going to grow in bitterness and resentment, and before you know it, you’ve grown callous. You’re hardened to change.
Chris: Yeah. I think there’s a regret that goes along with that too. There are opportunities missed.
Mike: Yes. And the word I’d want to say is, if you’re there, I get how you got there. I’ve been prone to those pathways too. I get it. It is also not too late to change. It may feel like, “I don’t have 30 more years to change all those ways.” Okay. Maybe you don’t have 30 years, but you have today. And just because you’ve gotten to that place of “I don’t want to grow,” or you’ve thrown in the towel and think it’s too late, that’s ridiculous.
Chris: One small step.
Mike: It is one small step.
Chris: Maybe instead of playing that third game of whatever games are being played…
Mike: You’re really hating on the video games today.
Chris: I’m just kidding. But maybe you go and spend some extra time with a kid.
Mike: I think it is small. I think all of these are small, incremental changes, and then over time, you look back on life and see the trajectory. But today, it’s one foot in front of the other. It’s probably just a quick evaluation: if I sit back, am I growing in maturity or not? And what am I going to do about that?
Chris: That’s a very mature way to look at it.
Outro: Thanks so much for joining us. Please consider rating and reviewing our podcast and hitting subscribe on whichever platform you prefer. Remember to keep moving forward, because we’re not quite there.
